OIl Problem I think | FerrariChat

OIl Problem I think

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by thedemon, May 28, 2006.

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  1. thedemon

    thedemon Guest

    Apr 22, 2006
    14
    Houston Tx.
    Full Name:
    Brandon Paradelas
    I have a 83 308 qv. and just did a cam belt replacement. When the engine runs bout 2-3 minutes the valves will start to clatter like no oil is getting to them but the oil gauge reads 85 psi. What did I do... Is there any part of doing a cam belt replacement that will affect the oil system???
     
  2. Doc

    Doc Formula Junior

    Sep 13, 2001
    886
    Latham, New York
    Full Name:
    Bill Van Dyne
    I'm not an expert but I wouldn't think so. What about the timing?
     
  3. Greyeangel

    Greyeangel Rookie

    Nov 25, 2004
    4
    Ohio
    There is nothing that changing the belts alone could have done to alter oil feed. The oil is fed thru passages that run up from the block, thru the heads, so it cannot be acccessed in this repair. To check for oil feed, pull the oil fill cap. You should see oil coming out between the cam cap and cam. Sounds like there is another problem to me.
     
  4. jselevan

    jselevan Formula 3

    Nov 2, 2003
    1,873
    Likely not an oil problem. With the cam belt change I assume that the mechanic rechecked the valve shim clearances and adjusted accordingly. Does the mechanical clatter sound like loose valve clearances? I have not worked on a 4-valve, but assume that they use the same shims as earlier 308s, 208s, etc.

    Jim S.
     
  5. Bandit

    Bandit Formula Junior

    Dec 21, 2003
    493
    Central MS
    Full Name:
    Mike B.
    I would be a little concerned that either a tensioner bearing or cam drive bearing might be going bad. Were new tensioner bearings put on? I forget who it was, but someone had a new bearing that was bad right out of the box.

    Get a mechanic's stethoscope and try to diagnose exactly where the sound is coming from as quickly as possible. If it is a tensioner bearing, failure could be very costly.
     
  6. thedemon

    thedemon Guest

    Apr 22, 2006
    14
    Houston Tx.
    Full Name:
    Brandon Paradelas
    Hey Guys thanks for all your valuable information. I did the timing belt change and I did not check the valves because there was not problem with them before they made no noise. Also I did not change the tensioners because they were in great shape. The performace of the engine is great but after running the engine I took off the oil cap and there was no oil on it at all seems that some oil should get on it from splashing around? If the valves needing shimming would they make noise as soon as the engine was started. I know that the oil comes up through the block but is it possible that using a longer bolt in a shorter bolt hole could have blocked the oil passage??? I am just shooting from the hip here...I am going to work on it today.
     
  7. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Ten Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Dec 10, 2005
    100,220
    Mount Isa, Australia
    Full Name:
    Pap
    Just a quick suggestion here. Ferrari's are noteable for having un-reliable gauges. I would do an oil pressure test on the engine to see if you really have 85 Psi oil pressure? I dont know what the correct oil pressure specs are sorry. But thats what i would do 1st for peace of mind,that the oil pump is ok,as you said it is a little dry in the top end yourself. Do that,then go from there :)
     
  8. jwise

    jwise Formula Junior

    Apr 2, 2003
    781
    Portland Maine
    #8 jwise, May 29, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    What longer bolt are you talking about?


    Absolutely, if you removed the cam covers and then resealed them. A glob of sealant could have clogged an oil passage.



    Can we get a little history of the car, and the proceedure you followed for belt replacement?

    1. When were the tensioner bearings replaced? Last full service?
    2. Did you remove the cam covers during the belt change?

    If you just locked down the cams (how?) and simply replaced the belts, then the cam timing may be way off because of a slipped tooth or two on the cam gears. The only way to know for sure is to remove the cam covers and inspect the timing marks. There are rough timing marks (on QV's) on the back of the belt covers. Se picture. The pointer for the mark is riveted to the back fiberglass timing belt cover. The photo shows the marks painted for clarity.
    These can't be used to actually time the cams, but are there for rough verification- as far as I know.

    You can run the car with the oil cap removed and see how the oil is flowing.

    Good luck, and please fill us in on how it's going.

    Lastly, would you mind filling out some of your profile? At least we can know where you are located and we might be able to help even more.

    jwise
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  9. thedemon

    thedemon Guest

    Apr 22, 2006
    14
    Houston Tx.
    Full Name:
    Brandon Paradelas
    Again Thanks for all the help, The procedure I followed is at http://www.camerafilters.com/ec/timing.htm I purchased the car with 69K miles 4 weeks ago. I am in the process of bringing it up to par. I designed a lockdown tool made of two pieces of plastic and it works very well. After I replaced the belts and a few minutes of running the engine it started to make a valve knocking sound but I think it is a hard knock. I turned it off and dismanteded it all again and found that the rear bank (of course) one cam was off I think it may have slipped a tooth or two. So I made sure that the engine was TDC and retimed the cams. And after running a few minutes the samething. After thinking about this I am starting to think that maybe a valve is now bent and after it warms up (expands) it sticks and knocks.
     
  10. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ

    Dec 12, 2005
    15,118
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    Tom Spiro
    Just a long shot... could it be an incorrectly adjusted alternator belt? or AC belt? if you are hearing the valves... I would think you would have smoke etc... but high pitched chatter can be made by the acc belts being loose, mis aligned etc...

    If its the valves put some upper end lube... in then start it... quieter .then you have a valve issue... by the way 2valve & 4 Valve shims are NOT interchangable... I know from personal experience...
     
  11. jwise

    jwise Formula Junior

    Apr 2, 2003
    781
    Portland Maine
    Thanks for the extra info and updating your profile. There are tons of owners in and around Houston. Maybe post in the Texas sections for some hands-on help.

    O.K.- I'm a little confused. Did you follow the process on the link provided (remove cam covers) or did you just lock the cams at the gears, slip off the old belts, and slip on new belts (I know, it's a little more complicated than that!)?

    I would do a simple compression test, and then let those resuts decide if you need a leak-down test.

    Basic things to do:
    check oil level
    try to locate the noise with a stethescope (NAPA has them)

    good luck
     
  12. thedemon

    thedemon Guest

    Apr 22, 2006
    14
    Houston Tx.
    Full Name:
    Brandon Paradelas
    Question if a timing belt skips, how many teeth must it skip before a valve will be bent???
     
  13. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

    May 21, 2005
    72,740
    Vegas+Alabama
    Full Name:
    Mr. Sideways
    Skipping 2 teeth bent my exhaust valve guides (valves OK) on my 348. Skipping 1 tooth did not bend my intake valve guides.
     
  14. Glassman

    Glassman F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    How about an update on the situation.
     
  15. blainewest

    blainewest Formula Junior

    Aug 26, 2005
    729
    Kelowna, BC
    Full Name:
    Blaine W
    After you replaced the belts did you turn it over by hand several revolutions?...if your cam timing was out such that your valves are contacting your pistons it seems to me you would have "felt" this when turning it over by hand. Experts...am I wrong here?
     
  16. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 6, 2002
    79,380
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Bubba
    I think he's in search of a guy here in Houston......
     
  17. jaydens1

    jaydens1 Rookie

    May 17, 2006
    33
    new zealand
    Full Name:
    tony j downes
    guessing here but was it the same oil filter or was it replaced.It possibly jumped a couple of teeth when the camshaft journals ran dry of oil if/ it ran out of oil or possibly the belt tension was incorrect .sorry to hear it.Jumping teeth sends a shiver down my spine
     
  18. thedemon

    thedemon Guest

    Apr 22, 2006
    14
    Houston Tx.
    Full Name:
    Brandon Paradelas
    Ok... Finally found the knocking problem. It was a bad cam pulley drive bearing not a valve knocking. Wow that was a pain to change. I will start to reassemable thing this weekend. Will keep everyone posted.
     
  19. jwise

    jwise Formula Junior

    Apr 2, 2003
    781
    Portland Maine
    Good to hear you figured it out. I know, those cam drive bearings can be a pain. Please post some pictures of your process- thanks.

    You did both, correct? The oil seals also?
     

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