Ok – boys out with your financial crystal balls please (no testicle jokes thanks) | FerrariChat

Ok – boys out with your financial crystal balls please (no testicle jokes thanks)

Discussion in '360/430' started by vegas, Mar 9, 2012.

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  1. vegas

    vegas Formula Junior

    Nov 22, 2009
    294
    Australia
    #1 vegas, Mar 9, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2012
    There has been some excellent points here in the “Are 430's truly worth DOUBLE the cost of a 360?” thread – with quite a number of astute chaps adding to the discussion. I would like to run this idea past you.

    While I understand there are different market pressures between countries affecting depreciation/supply & demand - there seems to be fairly similar trends in the US and Australia regarding the modern Ferrari’s at least (360 – onwards), this has been verified very much so by that particular thread.

    As such I won't mention actual dollar figures - I’m more interested in people’s opinion on the viability of the ‘concept’ itself over the next 3 years.

    My Goal: To get my rear end into a 458 within 3 years.
    Financially I can’t stretch that far now and even if I could, I wouldn’t want to absorb the depreciation that will ultimately follow – (noting there has been very little so far) – but by 2015, when the 458 replacement is released I expect a fair drop in 458 pricing from today’s prices, particularly the then-older (2011/12) models – depending of course of the pricing and performance of the replacement.

    To do this I can keep my 360 (very nice, very original, full Ferrari service history – I actually love the look of the 360, though it’s not as fast as I’d like - but want a 458 more!!) or ‘trade up’.

    I think the price of 360’s will only fall very slightly over the next 3 years – more so 430’s, but there will always be a decent price margin between them as the 430 is clearly a more refined faster car with less maintenance costs. However, if I buy a 430 now, I expect it will drop in value at a faster rate than if I keep the 360. Scuds are holding their value very well in Australia and it appears in the US – I think this will continue like the CS has done in both countries.

    My plan – which I’d like your comments on is – buy a 430 scud now, as I expect it will hold a firmer value than the standard 430 and in 3 years sell the scud to buy a 3-4 year old 458, minimising my risk of depreciation OR sit on the 360 for another 3 years.

    Your thoughts?
     
  2. greyboxer

    greyboxer F1 World Champ

    Dec 8, 2004
    12,665
    South East
    Full Name:
    Jimmie
    In the UK now a Scud is worth about £ 100 and a 360 about £ 40 - in three years time the Scud will probably be worth £ 80 - your 360 will not have halved in value to lose you the same amount of money - it will be cheaper to maintain (especially if you choose to go indie) and insure - so keeping it gets you closer to a 458
     
  3. Forcefed

    Forcefed Karting

    Aug 14, 2009
    203
    United Arab Emirates
    I dont know your exact financial situation, but if you are able to spend money and purchase another Ferrari now i would go for it. What i get from you is that you are somewhat disappointed with the 360 performance. The Scud will give you a huge jump in performance when you compare it to your current 360. I am not only talking HP #s its an all around better car in terms of power handling and dynamics. The way i see it is if you can buy one now buy it and enjoy it instead of keeping the 360 until the 458 drops in price to within your budget.

    Maybe not to many think like me, but I also like to enjoy life, and believe me it is short. heck if you can buy the scud buy it and enjoy it. You might not have the time to buy a 458 in 3 yrs.
     
  4. Need4Spd

    Need4Spd F1 Veteran

    Feb 24, 2007
    6,678
    Silicon Valley
    If the main goal is the lose as little money as possible so that you can best afford a 458 in 3 years, the answer is to keep the 360. It's lower on the depreciation curve and there's no guarantee a Scuderia will hold its value better. The cost of acquisition has you placing a bet that it will, but there is more to lose and no upside (other than the performance/enjoyment in the meantime). It's not like driving a 360 is a hardship.
     
  5. plastique999

    plastique999 F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Nov 9, 2008
    8,841
    SoCal
    Full Name:
    Edward
    I agree with this. It depends on if your priority in the decision is financial or driver fulfillment.

    Keep 360 = financial
    Scud = driver fulfillment

    But you cant put a price on driver fulfillment...priceless!
     
  6. Nashtyboy

    Nashtyboy Formula Junior

    Sep 8, 2010
    429
    Raleigh, NC
    One thing to think about is if you go the Scud route, it will "feel" easier to transition to the 458 since you will have a smaller cash outlay to make when trading in a Scud for a 458.

    I do agree that in absolute dollar terms, it's probably more likely that a nice 360 will depreciate less than a nice Scud over the next 3 years. But you can say that about any two cars that have a large age gap. A nice 355 will depreciate less than a nice 360. Etc. The decision hinges around whether or not the fun you get out of the Scud is worth the extra money to you.
     
  7. Chiaro_Slag

    Chiaro_Slag F1 Veteran

    Oct 31, 2003
    7,789
    CA
    Full Name:
    Jerry
    This
     
  8. Trent

    Trent Formula 3

    Dec 10, 2003
    2,013
    Indialantic, FL
    Full Name:
    Trent
    You answered your own question. If you want a 458, then buy a 458 as soon as you can. Buying a 430 will add more depreciation in nominal dollars (Australian or otherwise) than your current 360, thus pushing out your 458 purchase timeline.

    You have a 360, so drive and enjoy.

    "Three years will pass slightly faster than the last three." Trentism 2012
     
  9. Hkpooh

    Hkpooh Formula Junior

    Nov 11, 2011
    514
    like many have said...
    To minimize cash/value lost, keep your 360.
    To make the transit easier, get scud now and add a lot less later for 458

    Something new will always come out. If you can stertch now, get the scud enjoy it now and worry about the rest 3-5 years later. I don't think keeping the 360 and jump to 458 in 5 years will save you a lot of money when compare to get the scud now then 458.

    At least not enough to justify the torture!
     
  10. dlopez001

    dlopez001 Formula Junior

    Sep 25, 2007
    908
    CA
    Full Name:
    DL
    If you go the Scuderia route, you may find the 458 "unnecessary". By that I mean, the Scuderia will be quite a performance leap from the 360, and performance may be "close enough" to the 458 that you may decide to not spend the extra cash for the 458 (and in certain environments, one may argue the Scuderia outperforms the 458).

    Or you may find that the race-oriented, spartan Scuderia interior is not for you thus accelerating your decision to move into a 458.

    Keep in mind this is coming from a biased Scuderia owner, so take my comments with a grain of salt.

    Cheers,

    DL
     
  11. freshmeat

    freshmeat F1 Veteran

    Aug 30, 2011
    7,284
    I don't think money should be center of your decision making. While, it governs what you can or cannot afford, ultimately you know what you want and it then just becomes a question of how you get there.

    If the 458 is truly what you want and will bring you that happiness you seek, then do whatever you can with honesty and integrity to attain it. Life's too bloody short and we all make enough compromises in our lives; happiness shouldn't be one of them...and with new cars coming out all the time, dwelling on what might come to pass vs the now seems kind of stupid imo.

    But I'm a simpleton like that, might not be an acceptable style / approach to life for many.

    I test drove the 458, have a scud at the moment and came from a stradale+R8...I didn't ever grin like a rahtard in the other cars like I do when I'm in the scud. It's magical, and though I think the 360 CS is aesthetically more pleasing imo than the scud, once I get in and drive it I don't even remember what a CS looks like. It's that magical, at least for me.
     
  12. vegas

    vegas Formula Junior

    Nov 22, 2009
    294
    Australia
    I'm really appreciating the views and insight on this thread - thanks
     
  13. futureferraribuyer

    futureferraribuyer Formula Junior

    Jun 23, 2010
    296
    We have to figure about 10% sales tax and registration in California which is not an insignificant sum of money if you're considering a 430, Scud or 458. So even if you sell for the same price you loose 10% right off the bat.
     
  14. vegas

    vegas Formula Junior

    Nov 22, 2009
    294
    Australia
    That's a a verry good point - we have similar unavoidable tax here
     
  15. Hkpooh

    Hkpooh Formula Junior

    Nov 11, 2011
    514
    I just drove a 458 today, not sure if you have driven them yet but I strongly suggest you drive
    a Scud and a 458 first. Is different animal where the 458 is a bit too refined and smooth for me.
     
  16. vegas

    vegas Formula Junior

    Nov 22, 2009
    294
    Australia
    I'm acutally test driving 2 (Scuds) on Monday - at Ferrari Sydney. will post pics. Will also seek a 458 test drive. Thanks good advice.
     
  17. Hkpooh

    Hkpooh Formula Junior

    Nov 11, 2011
    514
    enjoy!
     
  18. Trent

    Trent Formula 3

    Dec 10, 2003
    2,013
    Indialantic, FL
    Full Name:
    Trent
    You looking for a coupe or a spider? I want to get a 458 when I get a few free minutes to do the research and shop, but I am torn spider Vs coupe. The 2+ year wait for a spider does not phase me, I am patient hand have no shortage of toys. If only the engine was visible on the 458 spider...... then it would be easy.
     
  19. rocketman

    rocketman Formula 3

    Oct 1, 2009
    1,487
    NY & Miami

    +1
     
  20. vegas

    vegas Formula Junior

    Nov 22, 2009
    294
    Australia
    I'm chasing a coupe - while the spider looks nice, I live in Queensland - mostly hot and sunny. I've had Covette's and a Comaro - Targa Tops, when I was younger and due to the heat and sunburn I rarely drove with the top off those cars. Nice at night and early morning though, but for me - I'll take a coupe.
     
  21. MikeR397

    MikeR397 Formula 3

    May 9, 2010
    1,469
    SE Michigan
    #21 MikeR397, Mar 9, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2012
    What sales tax, use tax, and insurance deltas would you have to pay for trading up from the 360 to the Scud? How easy will it be to sell your 360? Will you have to trade it in at a lower value? Even besides the added (absolute not percentage) depreciation on the Scud vs 360, that sounds like a very expensive trade up for a 3 year period when the goal is to save money and get a 458. If you truely want a 458 quicker, than my vote is keep the 360.

    One other alternative: Get the Scud and keep it as you may enjoy the rawness of it much better than the 458, and IMO, the power difference between the two is inconsequential unless you really need to win your drag races.

    ETA: As I read through the thread after posting this, it looks like other brought up the same issues in different posts as well.
     
  22. greyhair

    greyhair Formula Junior

    Jan 1, 2011
    477
    Central Valley Ca
    There is only one problem with this statement.

    Once you drive and own a scuderia you will not want a 458 :)

    greyhair
     
  23. Trent

    Trent Formula 3

    Dec 10, 2003
    2,013
    Indialantic, FL
    Full Name:
    Trent
    Fair enough reason. I live in central Florida and its always warm and sunny, but if its too hot I just take another vehicle. I have some pre-cancer on my face from too much sun and really, really need to just buy coupes, but I bought hats instead.
     
  24. Forcefed

    Forcefed Karting

    Aug 14, 2009
    203
    United Arab Emirates
    I totally agree.
     

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