OK Carb gurus.... HELP! | Page 2 | FerrariChat

OK Carb gurus.... HELP!

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by BlueMax, Jul 19, 2007.

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  1. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 6, 2002
    79,406
    Houston, Texas
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    Bubba
    A friend later pointed out that when replacing coils the condensor should be renewed at the same time.....cheap enough.....$12 at Ricambi....
     
  2. Artvonne

    Artvonne F1 Veteran

    Oct 29, 2004
    5,379
    NWA
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    Paul
    I would definetly check the wires and extenders before ripping the cam cover off. I had a popping on acceleration with a break up above 5000. MSD 6's masked the problem, but on points it was a real issue. I found two wires that had zero (infinite) resistance, and an extender that was burned out through the side and melted at the top where the wire attaches. This should show everyone that we can have a great deal of ignition wear/damage and still have a car that runs fairly decent. With the MSD running the show you wouldnt have known there was anything wrong. At least not until about 2 or three hours of running when one of the boxes got hot and would go nuts and start making it backfire and snap and pop. No more of that nonsense.

    I found condensors at the local parts store work fine. Any four cylinder or 400mf condensor will work. IIRC the wires should be about 900 ohms per foot with the points ignition, make sure they are the low resistance solid core wires. Also make sure your extenders are black, not the brown ones, and plugs should be non resistor. BP6ES work well, although I am currently running BP5ES, but keeping a watchful eye on them.
     
  3. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Dec 6, 2002
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    I use the '5's...this alcohol laden gas is realy loosening the varnish, IMO......

    The Ferrari books actually call for the hotter plug in town, a cooler range for Track extended operation...
     
  4. BlueMax

    BlueMax Formula Junior

    Aug 6, 2006
    319
    Murrieta, CA
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    JR
    ok. So much for it being something (obvious) that I did during the belt service...

    Just checked the cam alignment marks again. They are "right on". Exactly where they were before the service, and exactly where they were after the belt change.

    To be a problem on the whole rear bank, then, it HAS to be something with the ignition system, right?

    I just can't imagine all 4 plug wires, or all 4 extenders on the rear bank going bad at the same time... and at, just coincidentally, the same time I changed the belts...

    Could a condenser cause this problem? They were recently replaced (w/in the last few months). What about a coil?

    The only thing left is to pull the distributor (again) and have it run on a machine....

    Thoughts?
     
  5. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    No I'd say you are on the right track, a coil...coil wire........something like that to drop them all..

    I'm having the same trouble with #22127, BTW!
     
  6. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
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    May 10, 2006
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    John!
    I say dump the coils. They get really really tired.
     
  7. BlueMax

    BlueMax Formula Junior

    Aug 6, 2006
    319
    Murrieta, CA
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    JR
    Just found that the ign wire from the coil to the distributor was showing about 4000 ohms resistance. New wire 900ohms resistance. Thought FOR SURE that was it. No luck.

    STILL popping on all four rear cylinders on heavy accleration.

    Is it possible that the one bad coil wire caused ALL FOUR other ign wires on that bank to go bad? Or the condenser? or the whole coil?

    I rechecked the timing and watched the progression of the distributors on both the front and rear banks. They are identical. I thought I might have had some weights that were sticking... Nope.... But I AM getting an occasional shock throught the base of the distributor when tightening/loosening the bottom bolt on the distributor base.

    I think something in there is shorting out. Possible a loose connection on the points?
     
  8. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    More likely the bad wire killed off an old coil, IMO.....try those MSDs man, they fit the bracket and everything.....
     
  9. BlueMax

    BlueMax Formula Junior

    Aug 6, 2006
    319
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    JR
    Is the MSD coil "plug & play"? Or do I have to change anything else out?

    ie points, plugs etc... Also what part number? Thanks!
     
  10. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
    Owner Project Master

    May 10, 2006
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    John!
    MSD canister style coils will work fine.
     
  11. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Dec 6, 2002
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    Yep, the normal one will fit also.....I just went with High Vibration unit....
     
  12. BlueMax

    BlueMax Formula Junior

    Aug 6, 2006
    319
    Murrieta, CA
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    JR
    ok, thanks guys! Unfortunately this will have to wait for a few days. I have to go to work until Sunday afternoon :-( Gotta make some money to pay for my hobby...

    I pulled the distributor to make sure nothing was loose are arcing inside the distributor. While re-timing, I got the *&%^ shocked outta me! I think the insulation or the wires may be breaking down? But definitely getting arcing across/ around the distributor even at idle. I am sure this is only worse under load and is probably at the root of my problem.

    Does this sound like wires to anyone else??
     
  13. lusso64

    lusso64 Formula 3

    Apr 12, 2004
    1,535
    Simi Valley
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    David
    You might consider swapping coil and condenser from one bank to another. That should tell you right away if the problem is there. Do one item at a time... Condenser first I suppose....

    The beauty of the car is that everything is duplicated. If only one bank is playing up, you have an entire spare set of parts to test with.

    My money's on a condenser on its way out, causing a weak spark that is sufficient for all occasions except when there's a lot of mixture to ignite.

    Dave
     
  14. BillyD

    BillyD Formula 3
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    Feb 28, 2004
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    I remember finding a crossfire/arcing problem one nite cause I couldn't find a flashlite. Run the car in pitch black at night & look for arcing, not in a closed garage please!!!!!
     
  15. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

    Jun 20, 2003
    6,689
    North shore, MA
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    THE Birdman
    Replace the points, condensers and wires. They are all cheap. That should get it, and you will be good to go for years.

    When I installed my electromotive, I had a misfire on one cylinder. I checked everything on it 20 times, including the wire, I even rebuilt the carb. It was still there. I then found a bad wire in the adjacent cylinder! Fixed the wire, problem solved. I could not figure that one out. High voltage electrical stuff is WEIRD. It does all kind of unexpected things.

    Birdman
     
  16. BlueMax

    BlueMax Formula Junior

    Aug 6, 2006
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    JR
    I was only home for 36 hours last week, so not a lot of time to troubleshoot...

    I checked the points, and they were good..
    Replaced the condenser; no luck
    Replaced the coil; still popping.

    I ordered new plug wires and will pick them up tomorrow on my way home to see if that does it...

    The plug extenders LOOKED ok. We'll see, I guess.

    One other question though. After doing more research, I keep seeing that other folks are getting an idle flow on the carbs of about 3.5-4kg/h when sync'ed. When I sync mine they are around 6-7kg/h... Is this a problem?
     
  17. BlueMax

    BlueMax Formula Junior

    Aug 6, 2006
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    JR
    (last post didn't seem to go, so here goes again!)

    I was only home for 36 hours last week, so not much time to troubleshoot.

    I replaced the condenser; didn't help the popping on the rear bank.
    I replaced the coil; no luck either.
    I checked the plug extenders; they seemed fine.... (this may be next replacement item...)
    I had to order new wires and will pick them up tomorrow on the way home to try that...

    One other thought: After doing more research, it seems that others are getting a flow of 3.5-4kg/h on their carbs when sync'ed. Mine was at 6-7kg/h after sync'ed (at 1000rpm). Does this seem off? Could this be at the root of the problem?
     
  18. BillyD

    BillyD Formula 3
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    Feb 28, 2004
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    I'd switch caps, shouldn't take longer an an hour to switch all the wires.
     
  19. BlueMax

    BlueMax Formula Junior

    Aug 6, 2006
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    JR
    already replaced the cap....
     
  20. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

    Feb 22, 2003
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    Russ Turner
    You seem to have addressed everything else...

    135...135...135...
     
  21. Beta Scorpion

    Beta Scorpion Formula 3

    Jun 22, 2006
    1,379
    Looks like you have checked just about everything, this getting to be a real mystery. BTW I am also getting in the 6-7 range with the Weber synch tool.
     
  22. thecarreaper

    thecarreaper F1 World Champ
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    Sep 30, 2003
    18,130
    Savannah
    my carb set up for sea level that has worked for 4 Ferraris so far :

    55 idle, 135 main F36 tube 200 air corrector, with a set of 195's and 220's air correctors in a box for final fine tuning and weather change tuning.

    my .02
     
  23. BlueMax

    BlueMax Formula Junior

    Aug 6, 2006
    319
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    JR

    Glad to hear someone else is getting these numbers. I was beginning to think it may be some elusive vacuum leak I am missing... It still may be...

    Thanks for the advice. I still haven't re-jetted, as I was going with some previous advice that if it was running before, it is something I did. After I get it going smooth, I can re-jet. I have heard that if you go up one step in the mains, then you should probably go down 3 steps on the air-corrector (if there is no problem with the top-end dying away). So your numbers sound right on! Of course you know this because you have gotten that set up to work in so many other cars! Thanks again for your jet set-up numbers!

    Cheers,

    Max
     
  24. thecarreaper

    thecarreaper F1 World Champ
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    Sep 30, 2003
    18,130
    Savannah
    glad to help Max, thats why we are here.

    i had another thought, make sure you have no exhaust leaks close to the head or header flanges. this will also cause mid throttle popping as cooler air get sucked in backwards.

    just a thought. please update later.

    Michael
     
  25. BlueMax

    BlueMax Formula Junior

    Aug 6, 2006
    319
    Murrieta, CA
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    JR
    I think I discovered the culprit! I found a plug extender w/ infinite resistance... My theory is that under load, this was arcing everywhere and causing misfiring across the entire bank of cylinders. I am taking a trip to my favorite parts store tomorrow and hopefully that will be it!

    On the bright side of things, I have a nice parts bin built up of ignition parts and carburetor rebuild kits for that day when something else happens!

    Maybe I can pick up some new jets while I am at the parts store.....

    I'll let you know how it goes tomorrow!
     

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