OK; hypothetical question.. | FerrariChat

OK; hypothetical question..

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by Pass, Feb 29, 2008.

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  1. Pass

    Pass F1 World Champ
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    Well maybe not that hypothetical... Suppose a guy.. some guy like myself.. would endever to create an exact replica/ reproduction/tribute/clone et al. of a particular model automobile (what ever you want to call it). This car would use completely vintage drive train, suspension, interior appointments, etc.. and would be a nut and bolt "walk in the factory shoes replica" to create this race car. All the components would be modified to the original specifications that the factory deemed at the time usefull for racing. This car was built using factory drawings and photographs available in the public domain. It would also be based upon the use of a currently titled sedan donor car. This car will be a recreation of a particular race car that currently no longer exsists acording to factory records and was scrapped sometime in the 50's or 60's. Question is: Could I be in any situation where this "rebody" "Modified" recreation could be a legal liability either with copyright or state/ federal regulations? My local DMV doesnt seem to think so but after hearing what happened to Boyd Coddington with his "Ship of Theseus deal" and what happened in Italy this week I am slightly disturbed.
     
  2. Simon^2

    Simon^2 F1 World Champ

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    You have no idea how lucky you are you didn't post this in the vintage section...
     
  3. Bradley

    Bradley F1 Rookie

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    I'm not sure exactly which racecar you have in mind to replicate, but if it's a Ferrari, be aware that their lawyers are VERY aggressive. (Yes, I think it could be a liability.)

    I'm also not clear on whether you want this just for yourself, or to sell. If you turn out any significant number of copies per year, and offer them for sale, you are very likely to fall under their radar. If it's a one-of for personal use, you are probably okay. . . although numerous Tifosi will probably disapprove.
     
  4. robbie

    robbie F1 Rookie

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    In the vintage racing world all you need is a nameplate or ID plate and you can reconstruct a new/old car around it. Its done all the time. And let's not forget the "continuation" Shelby cobras. Of course, the Ferrari factory also did a lot of remanufacturing way back when. It all comes down to full disclosure. Selling a Rolex fake, telling the buyer it's fake, and charging a price for a fake is not nearly as bad as selling the fake as real with a real price.
     
  5. Qvb

    Qvb F1 Rookie
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    If it is for yourself, you can make it look like whatever you want.
     
  6. Bradley

    Bradley F1 Rookie

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    Fake Rolexes ARE illegal. I agree that it's better to sell a fake and say it's a fake than to present it as the real thing. Legally, it's still trademark infringement with regard to watches.

    The Ferrari factory can do what it wants with its cars.

    Legally, the question of replica cars is murky. Ferrari has always been very aggressive about pursuing copycats. In the 80's, Pontiac dealers were selling re-bodied Fieros which were intended to look like 328s. (In my opinion, they didn't, very much.) Ferrari forced the company, Mera, to cease and desist on the basis of the "strong resemblance" alone.

    I stand by my earlier post: If the proposed replication is a "one-of," there's little possibility of trouble. If he wants to mass-produce them and sell them, he might be facing litigation. (And if he does, he might win, based on the Shelby Cobra precedent, but he might not. And litigation, regardless of the outcome, is not something most people are eager to face.)
     
  7. gblogger

    gblogger Formula 3

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    'Clones' are created all the time. Mustangs, Camaros, Ferraris. As the previous poster stated, full disclosure. (Assuming a one-off project and not 'kit car' selling.)

    What Boyd did was take his NEW car and register them as antiques, something they never were. That does not fly.
     
  8. 134282

    134282 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    If you're making one, for yourself, to use privately, then you're fine. Have at it, good luck, post pictures when you're done. If you plan on manufacturing a fleet of replicas, for resale, then you should reconsider.
     
  9. Pass

    Pass F1 World Champ
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    #9 Pass, Mar 1, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  10. wetpet

    wetpet F1 World Champ
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  11. Pass

    Pass F1 World Champ
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    WOHA! I am not talking about a fiberglass replica; I am talking about a NUT AND BOLT down to the last detail recreation. All components will be as original including the aluminum body; Cromoly space frame, even the very rare but correct M188 engine block and 194 cylinder head, high compression pistons, PBIC40 Carbs correct M188 Camshaft. I even have the correct Luftwaffe Jungens dahboard mounted clock. This car when finished will be undistinguishable from the original car with the exception of the VIN.
     
  12. Simon^2

    Simon^2 F1 World Champ

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    Had no idea there was that much wood in the original... ;)

    Just curious why you chose to post this on FERRARI chat? Seems a Benz site would have been a more logical place.

    Regardless, I'd love to see the progress. There is an "other cars" section. I'd follow the thread.

    What's your time frame for the project. Is it rude of me to ask the budget?

    NOW THE TOUGH QUESTION.... why not find a disaster car (300sl gullwing or something else) and resore it. Then you have a restored car WITH a PROPER serial number. No doubt a better financial investment. Emotional investment... well that's a up to each of us...
     
  13. Pass

    Pass F1 World Champ
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    Well, Simon; (by the way please excuse my intrusion to the Ferrari world.) I have however developed an interest now seeing your fine website and will be looking at doing something Ferrari soon. I have decided after restoring 20+ 300SL Gullwings and Roadsters over the last 15 years; I decided I needed a change. I have about $170,000 in this W194 already. I have all the drive train, suspension, the frame is 80% complete, the transmission is done, the engine is ready to assemble, I have the interior components, correct headlights, tail lights, all the original 1 to 1 blueprints. The reason I decided to bring my concerns to the attention of the Ferrari people is because there is not many people building replica Benzes with legal problems. The man in England that built the GTO that qualified for FIA status seemed an interesting comparison. And yes I have been contacted by the Factory warning me of possible legal probems; but have not had anyone give me a clear and concise reason why what I am doing is a possible copyright issue even from the factory people. By the way time frame gone by is already two years.. Should be mounting a body by January 2009. Also; disaster Gullwings are now $400K PLUS, Mark
     
  14. Simon^2

    Simon^2 F1 World Champ

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    To still procede... you have more courage than me.

    Don't poke the bear...
     
  15. James in Denver

    James in Denver Formula 3

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    I'm not a lawyer, nor am I a mechanic, nor am I in the auto business of any sort. But here's my 2 cents.

    I can see problems if it was a Ferrari and it was in Italy (the recent stories bear that out) or more apt in Germany for the Gullwing, but if its in the US AND its for your personal use AND you dont represent it as a real gullwing but a recreation to exact detail, I can see no problem with it.

    If you sell it...... that gets tricky because you have no control over the next owner.

    If you represent it as original..... that gets tricky because even if its exact copy its NOT an original.

    I think you'd have difficulty with the factory if they wanted to press it, they have deep pockets, but I think it would be a great tribute.

    Good luck, love to see it when your done, I LOVE the Gullwings, theres at least 1 real one and 1 fiberglass one here in Denver, saw the fiberglass one once, never seen the real one.

    James in Denver
     
  16. Pass

    Pass F1 World Champ
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    Well; thanks you guys. I was hoping to someday ship the car to Germany and drive it on the Nurburgring just for fun, but I now have visions of the customs people seizing it at the port and crushiung it. I will post my progress on my website: www.ranchomerced.com
     
  17. Meister

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  18. Pass

    Pass F1 World Champ
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    OK; Now according to the Sports Car Market; Boyd Coddington claims in the article by John Draneas that he did nothing wrong but it would appear he copped a plea to avoid the hassles of a trial for title washing or what ever this supposed crime of creating a replica car from scratch vintage parts? Or did he do it because he is a high profile target of the Peoples Republic of California? This article Quotes the California prosecutor as Boyd being a " Strait up Guy" WTF?
     

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