I agree. I first covered mine with the new reproduction mousehair and it looked like a jewlery box -- much too blue/black for me. It went on easily but it just drove me crazy the more I looked at it. I got very very lucky and found two large pieces from a long time trimer and also an original Daytona dash kit in France. The two odd pieces had different fade and each was not big enough for all the pieces so I went went with the Daytona kit--I had to put it on with the grain going across the dash rather then from front to back but I decided that I would rather have the correct material then the correct grain direction. Before I found the original material pieces I bought the ultra suede material that Ferrari supposely sold as replacement material. It had Ferrari stamped on the backside. It was the almost the correct color and from five feet away it looked good- but it did not have the grain. If you do not like the reproduction and cannot find the original then to me the ultra suede comes very close to the correct shade/feel of the original. It may be harder to stretch but I understand that a good trimmer makes it work. I would call as many trimmers as you can find and ask them if they have any roll end pieces large enough to construct a dash. You may have to accept a mismatch in fade but for me this type of compromise is worth it. Mine will soon fade unevenly just because will I drive it.
I have a full roll of the newer black material. I wonder if it is possible to "fade" it a bit chemically without ruining it. Sort of like bleaching jeans. I know the original material seemed to fade on contact with air! I visited the company in Italy that originally made it or had it made. The head of the company admitted it was a product that was faulty in that it faded prematurely but they didn't know at the time. Looked great when new but changed to a tan color over time. I used VHT black fabric spray that worked great and didn't give that jet black look of the newer material. Any ideas on fading the newer stuff is welcome. I have enough to experiment with. I will spray some with the VHT and see how it looks.
Does anyone know the original manufacturer of this mouse hair and what the components are? If it was so cheap when it was made, maybe the newer materials are just too "high quality" for the authentic look of the original "mouse." Just a thought.
I have a roll of stuff from Ferrari dated 1982. It looks pretty black to me. I don't really have any frame of reference, I don't think any of us do unless we bought a Dino new in the early 70's. From what I can tell, the stuff started to fade about 3 minutes after the cars left the factory, and it was downhill from there. My car has the original material on the dash, there's no hair left, except in a couple of hidden spots and even that appears to be faded. Anyone have a good idea of what the stuff looked like when it left the factory, or are we making educted guesses. Dave
This is driving me nuts. I have a 72 246 GTS so there is a vested interest to figure this out. Anyway, by googling "alcantara" i found the site, duh, alcantara.com. There it gives a long history of the stuff, how it started and what its used for now. Of course all kinds of improvements over the years and its used in aircraft, office furniture, kids toys and just about anything with that velour feeling. Here's the key! It was invented in the 1970's buy a Japanese scientist named Miyoshi Okamoto. I did a search on the US patent website and voila, there he is! 1970 applied for and granted in 1972. Of course since a patent only lasts so long (about 20 years) this company has been improving the stuff like mad to keep their competitive edge in this "mouse hair" world! Since the patent wasn't granted until 72, the process updated the old mouse hair dramatically after that and has since been updated over the past 4 decades. The source is out there somewhere! We need the old machines from the 70s (maybe), plus the outdated techniques and materials and there we go. Brand new original F-car mouse hair! BTW, no one will care about the patent since is it long expired and much improved since the 70's. Best yet, there is such a limited market compared to traditional autos that this is insignificant to the giant "alcantara" company now. Here's what they say on the website about the product: "The incredible appeal of Alcantara® stems from a true technological breakthrough, an invention that comes from Japan. It all started in 1970, when Dr. Miyoshi Okamoto, a scientist working at the multinational Japanese chemical corporation Toray, filed a patent for this innovative material. To tap the full potential of this extraordinary discovery, the Japanese company looked for a European partner to help it tackle the market, and found one in the ENI Group." What I can't believe is how ubiquitous this stuff is. check out this story where they celebrated the use of alcantara in the auto industry: http://www.italiaspeed.com/2006/events/alcantara/0804.html anyway, those are my random thoughts for now. Dave, maybe we could commission a run of the "old stuff" like you did with the signal lamps. Cheers! Tony
I believe the company in Italy I visited was called Trincera. Will check with Dennis McCann as I went there with him. The fabric inside the glovebox door on my '74 is original and pretty black. I have doubts that the fabric was ever a charcoal color. There were probably different dye lots but my guess is it was black just not the jet black like the new stuff. I think if you found original NOS fabric and installed it you would still end up with a faded dash before too long and have to redye it somehow or other.
alcantara comes in a variety of colors. It has three distributors in the US. I'm going to contact the local folks here and see what the range of colors from gray to black is. If the material feels right (I've heard some complaints about it being too thick) and we can get the color we want, why not try for that as a solution? DM
the mouse hair matt has is very accurate in terms of appearance, it is blue/jet black and a little thicker than the old. the backing is also white, which is noticeable in the areas you see the edges. the thickness and white parts, i can live with. i just don't like the blue/jet black color, it looks goofy in person, especially if you have a black interior car
Yes-- I looked at mine after it was trimmed with the repro stuff for three weeks before it gave me such a headach I had to find the original no matter how faded. The dash was going to be the first thing I looked at everytime I got in the car and it was so blue/black jewlery box like, I just could not keep it. I have owned the car since it was one year old and had to have it match. Of course everyone thought I was nuts pulling off all the new stuff-- which is very nice in the sense it has the correct grain which I feel is same grain as the other trim in the car with just flocking glued on it like the old VW metal can tool kits. I thought about misting on clorox but did not get to far before I found roll ends of the original.
This old chestnut again! However i'm glad it has been raised again as i did not really get a definitive answer( thats if there is one!) before. My biggest unanswered question is the fact that the original material obviously had a black vinyl backing as when the mousehair fell/rubbed off you are left with a shiny pvc/vinyl dash. the new material which i obtained via e-bay from Mexico (at least thats where i think it came from) has a thin canvas backing which obviously has had the "hair" attatched directly to it. SO my freinds when recovering the dash with the new material you would obviously have to leave the existing old backing in place. But surely this would leave the new material sliding around. Or is it glued all over? Lastly, yes it's too black for me also, and if it were not for the fact that i need to dispose of a few extra unwanted switch holes on my dash, then i for one probably would leave it as it is with the vinyl showing. You can see where the old hair is with the open glove compartment highlighted by the fact that you cannot determine the grain on the vinyl underneath! I tried a shot of the material but because it's so shiny and hence reflective the result is poor. What the Hell do we do chaps? G P Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
3 years ago I took the Dino to the World Upholstery shop in Santa Paula, CA to get trunk carpet for my Dino. http://www.worlduph.com/material.htm I had been waiting 9+ months for Matt Jones to receive his trunk carpet (allegedly coming in from Italy with numerous delays) so had searched for an alternate source as I needed it before the Monterey 2004 event. Jamie stated that they sell material to Matt Jones. The carpet came out great and I also asked about the Dino Vinyl and mousehair. They had a big roll of the correct "Dino" vinyl in stock at $48/yard and the owner, Mike, examined the mousehair dash stating that it was "Dino" vinyl that had been flocked. I believe the correct material is this flocked stuff which is a bit different than Alcantra.
Yes- that was my take on the issue. The grain looks the same on my end of roll piece where the mouse hair ends and the base vinyl begins. My original Daytona kit is very black so the repro attempted to do the right thing by going with a black. Unfortunately I feel that the fade resistant flocking that is available has got that blue look to it. I would feel better if the repro used a deep grey instead since I feel it would have come closer to what everyone is used to seeing when they see a Daytona or a Dino. I remember that mine was less then a year old when I bought it and the pictures I have of it show a dark grey while in the glove box it was almost black. I got my repro a few years back from Re-original and I think everyone carries the same stock. Yes the suede you have came from a gentleman in South America that was selling on Ebay Dino pieces. It is very stiff and I would not like to try to stretch around some of the curves. Not sure how it would respond to a heat gun- did not try it.
By dino vinyl are we talking about the grained vinyl that is used on the top door edge and floor between the door and carpet, along with around the shifter? If so, I have a large roll of this original material also. How the hell does one "flock" vinyl? I'm ready to give it a shot if anyone can give me a clue as to how to proceed. I also have some samples coming on alcantara that might work (at least for color.) DM
Just to add to the "flocking" theory... I was told (by David at GT Parts) that the original vinyl (my seats are vinyl) was flocked to get the mousehair result. Oddly enough, the vinyl samples that I go from Reoriginals and Worlduph were no the same as my original vinyl. GT Parts had the exact match. Pietro
Ok, the great crash of 2006 has wiped out some info here. I'll try to recap. I have contacted a couple of sources for flocked materials. Both have gotten back to me, and have very different approaches to the problem. The first indicates he has an appropriate color of Alcantara that we will like. He's sending a sample. The second has a revolutionary approach to the problem. He's working on new flocking for several large US car manufacturers that has a very thin base, and can be applied over an existing dash, or over a fresh surface. He's going to send me samples in about a week. I'll post back into the thread once I've seen all the samples. Dave
Check out the dash material on the Alfa Romeo Diva. Up near the windshield- through the steering wheel- is that the Dino dash material grain showing? Is this the color we seek? www.italiaspeed.com/.../diva/2704.html
That link doesnt work! Try www.italiaspeed.com and search Diva. Photo gallery of 2006 villa d'est concours. You can try this link first: http://www.italiaspeed.com/2006/even...ery_1/111.html . Italiaspeed site a little tough to deal with as far as copy and paste.
