Moderator -- This thread needs more than "spoiler" added -- it needs to be retitled too since the title shows up on the main page. Perhaps MS had a contributing mechanical problem -- I thought he knocked wheels with somebody at the start? It's too bad that they don't include post-race interviews with the three top points holders too (in addition to the Podium finishers).
OK, I think MS has every right to do what he did. Warm the tires up with a burnout, go side to side, and then brake check to accordion everyone. It's a legal and smart race move, only if no one hits you. In the long run I think any fault rests on Montoya, but MS was stupid to put himself at that much risk for a restart. So my final analysis is... Legally Montoya was at fault. Common sense Michael lost out big time. We all know Juan is a cry baby idiot, so MS should have known better to brake check him like that.
Somewhat repeating my comments from the other thread discussing this... I'm a big MS fan and don't like JPM at all... but in this case, no way you blame that on JPM... what MS did, intentional or not, could not have been expected and JPM did good to react enough with the steering wheel and brakes to miss MS and not hit the inside wall... which JPM was at when he touched MS. Yes, its expected to brake causing an amplifying wave of braking in the tunnel... its NOT expected to brake so hard you lock it up!! Consider what JPM saw... sudden deceleration and a bit of smoke off MS left front... not knowing what MS might have run over or whatever, I'd swerve right... and if you're swerving right, you cannot be full brakes... and as close as the cars are, the result was inevitable and perfectly reasonable behavior from JPM. MS either had a mechanical failure of some sort or way overestimated how hard he could brake test JPM to gain a gap and run on him. Or... any number of other explanations... though I cannot imagine MS intended to lock up his wheels! Perhaps RB's complaints about the car also happened to MS... left front was not weighted and thus locked up without a whole lot of force... lots of speculating...
The anti-JPM are out in force again, blaming him for following MS too closely under yellow. If any of these anti-jpm fans know anything about racing, it is that even under yellow you stay as close to the lead car as possible in anticipation for the restart of racing, so "tailgating" is permissible and highly encouraged. For MS to jam on his brakes and lock it up basically says that JPM would had to react within that split second to avoid an incident, if you guys think JPM had the time to consciously decide to do malice toward MS within that blink of an eye then you give him more credit than I can.
so, No blame to Montoya.... what means in the next GP in the 1st warming up track round, everybody has to pay attention for JPM, because he will kick somebodys ass....again
There is no way JPM can be held responsible for this. I don't know how many of you guys have been on a track in a competitive situation, but if you have, you know that what yellow flags are supposed to mean and what they actually do are different things. JPM did what ANY driver in F1 or any other league would do - you get as close to the guy in front of you as possible so that on the restart you can hopefully get a split second jump and make the pass. F1 is so competitive that JPM did what ANYONE not only WOULD have done, but HAS to do. MS locked his brakes very suddenly, JPM saw it, knew he could not brake to avoid a collision, so he went right as far as possible. If he had gotten by, I am 100% confident he would flip off MS, then slow up and let him have the position back. But MS swerved to the right. You can see JPM was literally inches from the wall and had NOWHERE to go. MS ran over his front tire, sending him into a spin and crashing him out. The blame rests 100% on MS, it was a completely unavoidable accident from JPM's perspective. If anything, MS should be sanctioned, not JPM. Its all very well to say JPM should have paid attention or not followed so close, but this isn't the highway, it's a race with millions of dollars at stake and huge pressure to win. There is NO alternative other than tailgating in that situation. MS, as an accomplished and knowledgeable driver would absolutely know that there would be a guy right on his ass, as close as possible. Doing a brake check and swerving right was either a mechanical failure, or an attempt to cause JPM to hit the wall. I am a big MS fan, but he really screwed the pooch on this one, and he paid the price. He should be apologizing to JPM, not the other way around.
Just finished watching the race. I don't feel JPM is at fault in that incident. Clearly MS either made a mistake or deliberately brake-checked JPM, and in either case the rest of the field was lucky JPM had the reflexes that he did. Otherwise the exit to the tunnel would have been filled with parts and pieces as the rest of the field plowed into the wreckage of both cars.
If M.S. had not done what he did, none of this would have occurred. Therefore, the problem was initiated by him "M.S." Therefore, it's 100% his fault "M.S." People who think otherwise are of the mentality that if they entered the freeway going the wrong direction, and someone hit them, they'd get out the car and ask that person "why did you hit me ?" We need more lawyers !
It's all JPM's fault. What a frickin jerk. Why was he behind MS? MS should be alone on the track, so that he can do whatever pleases him. LMAO Seriously, people ... unless it was a mechanical failure, admit it was not a smart move from MS. Dark tunnel, the only grippy place is the racing line, and he brakes as hard as he can ... he has to know it's a risky move. All I can remember from the race is Alonso's crash ... now THAT was some crazy driving the way I like it. RS in the way in the tunnel (family problem? lol), Alonso never lifts, all the way to the outside. Yes it was kinda stupid, but if more drivers were into these kind of moves rather than passing in the pits, F1 would be way more spectacular! Alonso and Monaco rule!!
I read somewhere that in Germany you're automatically at fault in a road accident if you hit someone in the rear regardless of what they're doing...
WOW I cannot believe how iggnorant these comments are. JPM has already accepted the blame. Even though FIA cleared them both. READ.... He was attempting to warm his brakes up with the safety car due to return to the pit-lane when Montoya's Williams collided with him. Montoya said: "Michael brakes very hard as he was warming up his brakes and I moved to the right side of the track to avoid him. But the gap narrowed and we touched." Brawn said: "It was very unfortunate. You don't want to go out of a race for that reason. We were informed that the safety car was coming in and it is normal to warm your brakes up." www.f1live.com Schumacher was the race leader. he dictates pace. He was warming up his brakes. He wants to slow down the rest of the pck so he can gain a lead when the Safety Car leaves. JPM was apologetic on UK TV. He knows that if you ram a person from behind you are at fault.
Also to add on... Michael Schumacher: I accept the Steward's decision. I was accelerating and braking just as we do when we go to the grid and in the standard way when running behind the Safety Car. The tunnel was not even the first place I had done it as I had used the same procedure earlier in the lap. A bit of smoke off the wheels is quite normal in these situations as you try to get heat into the front tyres and the brakes.After not the most successful weekend for us, I am really looking forward to next weekend when we will already be at the Nurburgring for one of my home races. www.f1live.com In other words MS took it like champ and is moving on to the next race. While the critics and whiners like JPM can suck on their thumbs.
Well you must be the only smart guy and everyone on Ferrari-chat that saw it with their own eyes is wrong. Hey guys... guess what??? We are all iggnorant. LOL
I know I'm ignorant ... didn't need someone smart to tell me ... wait ... that makes me a bit less ignorant. In my worthless lack of knowledge, I think I heard Rubinho saying his car was not going well, that his front suspension was acting funny, with wheels locking easily and so on ... oh wait! Rubens isn't drving a red car too (remember I'm ignorant). LMAO I like it when MS gets some a bit. He goes away with so much that it feels good to see he's not an alien ... I actually saw him walking towards the pit, and he only had 2 legs, 2 arms and only one head ... this was quite a shock to me! ROFLMFAO!!
Tip: If you're going to call anyone who disagrees with you "ignorant", then you should probably be sure you spell the word correctly. Perhaps warming your brakes is normal and accepted. So is sticking to the leader during a safety car situation. MS made a mistake when he got off line and locked his brakes up. That caused him to stay on the brakes harder to scrub off speed, to prevent clipping the wall. JPM could have been braking at 100% too, but since MS braked first, and at the speed they were going, and not expecting the leader to brake as hard as he could, its understandable he could not slow enough to avoid MS. So, instead he veered to the side, but when MS regained traction, he swung over, occupied JPM's track position, and a collision happened. Blame it on whoever you want - I say MS made the mistake that caused the problem. He also paid the price for that. The stewards apparently agree, since no sanction was imposed on JPM. If JPM had caused it, you better believe they would be all over him, considering it would be a great accomplishment by MS to win 6, and considering he has criticized JPM before for similar incidents. The fact that MS was the one who ate the wall, and the stewards left it at that shows exactly what the opinion is of those who matter. Then again, I'm just ignorant so what do I know?
"as I said before : Montoya is a Kamikaze" Quote Yes they should pass a new rule in F1, call it the "Montoya Rule"- no passing except in the pits, and no one is allowed to pass or try to pass MS If MS is sooo much better than all the other drivers...it would make sense that it would be suicide to try and pass him. (Don't anyone tell that to JPM though... I enjoy watching a real race).
Please stop being a bunch of crybabies. It was a racing incident. Stop trying to place blame whenever something happens to Mikey Get over it. That's racing.
Not now, but at some point, I imagine this guy may have "the incident" as an .mpg. http://www.ukf1.net/ ____ http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=21037 Q: (Michael Schmidt - Auto Motor und Sport) Jarno, in the procedure behind the safety car of warming up the brakes and the tyres, how difficult is it for the guy behind to anticipate what the guy in front is doing? How dangerous is it? JT: Basically, to be honest, what I try to do is keep away from the guy in front of me and have a couple of cars' distance. But Montoya was not doing it, but on the other hand Michael was obviously trying to warm up the tyres. It is difficult to say who was at fault, it really just happened, and I tried to keep away from this incident. I saw that something was going on because they were so close, going really fast down to the Mirabeau, and, in the end, it has happened in the tunnel. And, you know, it was something that I thought 'oh, maybe they are going to crash' and they did. JB: The problem is, to me it seems, that especially on a circuit like this we are using a lot of brakes, more than before because the tyres are getting softer and softer and you have got more downforce. You are using your brakes a lot more than you were in the past so we are having to run harder material and to warm the brakes up is so difficult, it really is. I have really struggled with that all weekend. ... Q: (Thierry Thassin - RTBF) Rubens, you mentioned you had a problem with the brakes locking the outside wheel. Do you know if your team-mate had the same problem because when the incident happened in the tunnel, he locked the outside wheel. RB: Erm, no, I don't think so, because I have asked the team if he had a problem that I should be aware of. But, just like Jenson mentioned, we had to warm the brakes quite heavily throughout the weekend just to get the temperatures right for the first lap, so I guess Michael was warming them up. I was suffering behind the pace car to keep them warm so I guess he was going through the same thing. ___ I have a question: Did Moan Toy, I mean, Montoya touch his brakes?
I still can't fathom why Ferrari didn't bring MS in for fuel under yellow. If they had, this incident never would have happened. Even if the restart had been normal, MS would have had to stop for fuel while JT and JB were good to go to the end, so a win was not in the cards with the no-stop strategy. What were they thinking? Interestingly, the Speed TV guys were saying Trulli could not get to the end after his last stop. So much for timing the fuel load. Gary
Difficult to tell but from our replay on Starsports it "seemed" like Montoya was carrying a lot more speed into the tunnel than anyone else but since they slow-mo the sequence of events half way through it's hard to tell. But he was a lap down so if any of this was caused by his desire to get past MS after the safety car left then you have to wonder. He should have been just staying there and concentrating on staying out of trouble.
Anyone on this thread that has responded that it was 100% JPM's or MS's fault is wrong. TOM B has it right that it was just a racing incident. You do anything you can to get a competitive advantage and sometimes that puts you at risk. MS put himself at risk trying to get a competitive advantage by warming up his tires and brakes so violently in that particular place. JPM put himself at risk trying to get a competitive advantage by following MS so closely. Remember that JPM was a lap down. He had no personal reasons to challenge MS that close, maybe he just wanted to help Renault out. I think it would have come out by now in the news, but I really thought for awhile there was a mechanical failure causing the lock up or caused by it. Neither is to blame as it's a racing incident. To all those saying MS was totally in the wrong. You are totally in the wrong! What he did is not that unusual to gain a competitive advantage and as long as the FIA is OK with it, then it's perfectly fine to do. Maybe just not too smart on Michaels part. To all those saying JPM was totally in the wrong. You are totally in the wrong! Do you really think he purposely hit Michael? I don't think so, he just didn't have enough time to react. Some more news from www.speedtv.com... Trulli, who had the best view of the incident, said, I tend to leave a gap to the car in front, but Montoya did not seem to. Already at Mirabeau, they almost crashed and I thought, Hey, something might happen here. And it did! After reviewing the incident, the stewards opted to take no action against either driver, although Schumacher and Ferrari technical director Ross Brawn were clearly steamed. Williams TD Patrick Head said the incident was just a racing accident, although he questioned Schumachers judgment in weaving in the tunnel section.
