On Michael's move (Spoiler)...

I can think of others more undeserving...RS, DC, TS...

 

RS still has pace. He proved it last year by winning at the European GP and he did qualify second at Monaco, had it not been for BMW's engine woes he would not have been pushed to 12.

DC has a ton of knowledge for car development that he can give to an up and coming team like Toyota or BAR Honda.

TS... BAR == Honda Engine, Honda Engine == Japan, TS == Japan
I mean its simple math or shall I say simple $$$$$$$$
With strong backing from Honda, Takuma Sato will have the opportunity to prove his potential as a regular driver with BAR in 2004 after spending the previous year as a test driver in the team and ran the 2003 Japanese GP and finished 5th. He is only a rookie with 20 odd races. Give him time. he won't last many more years.

As for JPM 3 wins from 56 races... at the age of 28 / 29 claimming to be the next Senna does him no good. He had 7 poles in 2002 but wasted this oppurtnity without materializing a single victory from these poles. It will be a good day for F1 when JPM either wrecks himself up in an absurd driving stunt or is unable to secure a seat with any of the contructors because of his antics.

 

Going close to the wall is always a bad move; if you pick up the marbles on your tires you will pay a price. One J. Button stated that at 160 with lots of down force the tunnel was fine but at the slow speeds behind the safety car it was as he said "very slippery" in the tunnel. It was very humid (59%) that day what do you think the road in the tunnel was like without the sun heating the pavement?
Trulli stated that MS had done the brake check antics before and implied that MS was very lucky not to have caused any damage previously... the Bridgestones don't heat up as fast as the other tires either. Also the brakes need to be over 800 D to get the most out of them. Obviously concerns MS was trying to address. There is the "accordian effect" that the leader can always play to his advantage; keeping the other drivers guessing? It has been stated before by others that MS doesn't handle the pressure well when things are not going his way. Remember Japan and 8th place? That was another "fun weekend" that did not go smoothly...
Ralf said his brother would not win at Monaco and he was right!
CH

 

1) ANY race car driver worth his salt will race and race and race until it's all over. Has JPM managed to jump the start and pass MS, it would have firstly proven that he had the pace to do that. Secondly, it would have gotten plenty of TV time. Thirdly, it would have put him on the lead lap. And lastly it would have stuck a barb into the side of the guy he dislikes most on the grid. I think any driver that gives up when the going gets tough needs to ship out of F1. The suggestion that he back of 500m is just plain ludicrous. Its sort of like when MS felt that just getting a tire in front of the other guy was enough to "slam the door". Its just not relality.

2) If MS hit debris, surely he would have said precisely that. He didn't, so its fair to say he just made a mistake and locked the brakes. Surely he did not intend to lock up, so clearly it was a mistake.

3) I am a big MS fan, but I try to be as unbiased as I can. I think it's just totally biased to think MS wouldn't ever think of pushing the rules as much as possible to cause hardship to his competition. Getting on and off the brakes is probably less about keeping the brakes warm as it is about trying to be unpredictable and keeping JPM as far back as possible.

4) Just like you can't blame MS for braking whenever he wants, you also can't blame JPM for stayin as close as possible to the leader.

5) Given we agree that the lockup was a mistake, if MS had NOT locked up, would it have happened? Answer - no. Therefore, whether you believe it was mostly one or the others fault, we can agree MS shares some blame here.

6) It is a matter of opinion, but if it was someone other than MS in front, I don't think the braking would be so abrupt, or in the same place (a dark tunnel). If it was someone else behind, there would have been a bigger gap between the cars. These guys are fiercly competitive and we all know that. Their egos probably got the best of them.

7) Yes, JPM is a fair weather friend for wanting to jump to McLaren, but lots of folks here are also fair weather friends when they immediately suggested Ferrari switch to Michelin after the very FIRST time that Michelin decisively beat Bridgestone last year. You should stick it out, at least a little. JPM is doing precisely the opposite.

 

Thats pretty funny.
When I am lapping under yellow I watch the cars ahead closely because like me, they will warm their brakes up by applying full pressure. A different story though if the lights had been out on the safety car.

 

Well as I said before. JPM is not capable of winning the world championship unless and untill he has a car tha far outclasses aevery other car in the series. If you look at his career this was the reason why he did well in CART and in F3000. I think F1 would be better with some elegant drivers to replace his rash rally like stunt driving.

 

Amazing how Anti-JPM fans are still going on about how JPM has no real driving abilities. How short are their memories!

Who won the Monaco Grand Prix last year? Sure, now that Trulli has his FIRST F1 victory he automatically is ten times the driver JPM is.....

Tough to converse with individuals who ignore the facts........

Oh yeah, before the start of this season everyone was claiming that Kimi was the next coming, where is he now? Driving abilities is only part of the equation, there are so many variables to being successful in F1. Reubens came in third at Monaco while being a lap down! Explain that.

 

:werd: I especially liked the Trulli point.

 

As I mentioned previously in this thread (did you even SEE the race?), Kimi pulled two beautifull passes on Rubino and Michael. He set them up, got position, got by clean - really pretty. And that was accomplished driving a pretty crappy car. That, my friend, is the mark of a world class driver. When was the last time you saw Kimi punt someone to get past? Oh wait, there's only ONE driver who does that on a regular basis.

Ok, I'll say this slow...Rubino...was...a...lap...down...and...was...in...third...place...that...explains...the...third...place...trophy.
Jim

 

Any Williams driver that vacates to let Aussie Mark Webber into the seat sounds good to me

 

Did you see JPM pass RB with no problem?

 

New idea: Is it possible that the error wasn't the braking at all? Sure, it's an error but not one that causes you to crash......at least not in that situation. To me it simply looked like MS turned into JPM (once JPM turned right to avoid the lockup and was abutted against the wall). If he hadn't done that the braking situation would have been irrelevant. I don't even think JPM rearended MS, it looks as if MS turned into JPM....

Any comments?

 

Brilliant! Two passes equates Kimi to a world class driver!

I think you should definitely quit your day job and work as a full time talent scout for a F1 team.

Damn it! I keep telling JPM that he's a complete sham as a driver but he keeps clocking me in the head with his Indy trophy....

 

Btw, no one is flaming MS and saying he is a sham as a driver. Everyone on this board respects MS's abilities and almost any driver that can get to the F1 level.

What we are not doing is taking personal attacks on a driver just due to the dislike of his public persona and completely disregarding his racing abilities and achievements.

I think JPM is a brash cocky individual, that's ok, I don't have to live with him everyday, but I do respect his driving achievements. That's the distinction some guys on this board can't make. They don't like him personally so no matter what he does on the track he sucks and they make up excuses for his success and direct full blame for his failure.

Ask yourself this simple question. If he won the driver's championship you will still consider him a talentless driver, right? So no matter how many races he wins you will say he has no talent, your mind will never change on the topic.

There's a word that explains this, it is call "prejudice".

 

This is so funny I can't help myself.

So it appears that it is politically incorrect to display "dangerous aggresive" driving behavior as a F1 driver.

Yeah, and they should penalize JPM for not joining the other drivers for afternoon tea.......hahaha

 

RB is a pussie, I could pass him in my Toyota people mover . No driver in F1 has ever been such a complete push over as RB ... hardly worth rating JPM over.

Pete

 

Wise decision for RB to move.

Trulli stated, "Montoya wasn't leaving any space between himself and the Ferraris." (Note that is a plural)
Suppose RB ended up with -- points for the day after a hypothetical meeting with a wall after Moantoy played his cards right... RB'd be tied for 2nd in overall standings at 32, instead of holding steady at 2nd at 38.

RB remains 2nd in overall standings after he came in 3rd in Monaco. He came in 4th overall last year.

01 M.SCHUMACHER__10 | 10 | 10 | 10 | 10 | -- | 50
02 R.BARRICHELLO___08 | 05 | 08 | 03 | 08 | 06 | 38
03 J.BUTTON_______03 | 06 | 06 | 08 | 01 | 08 | 32
04 J.TRULLI________02 | 04 | 05 | 04 | 06 | 10 | 31
05 JP.MONTOYA____ 04 | 08 | -- | 06 | -- | 05 | 23
06 F.ALONSO______ 06 | 02 | 03 | 05 | 05 | -- | 21
07 R.SCHUMACHER__05 | -- | 02 | 02 | 03 | -- | 12
08 T.SATO ________-- | -- | 04 | -- | 04 | -- | 08
09 F.MASSA_______ -- | 01 | -- | -- | -- | 04 | 05
10 D.COULTHARD___01 | 03 | -- | -- | -- | -- | 04
11 C.DA MATTA____ -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | 03 | 03
12 G.FISICHELLA___ -- | -- | -- | -- | 02 | -- | 02
13 N.HEIDFELD_____-- | -- | -- | -- | -- | 02 | 02
14 O.PANIS_______ -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | 01 | 01
15 K.RAIKKONEN___ -- | -- | -- | 01 | -- | -- | 01
16 M.WEBBER______-- | -- | 01 | -- | -- | -- | 01

One would have to pass a lot of drivers, some without points - in order to pass RB, who is hardly a =^..^=.

One can also see how screwed up the point system is - given Michael's incredible run of 5 straight victories, it shouldn't be that close.

 

Wax,

I'm sorry you can justify RB pulling over and stopping everytime somebody attempts to race him how ever you want, but he is NOT a racing driver, period!

The fact that somebody of RB's lack of skill and conviction is second in the WC just shows that the points system and the way we reward drivers is WRONG.

I would rather RB fought for his position and ended up with no points for all the season ... atleast he had balls!

Personally I think RB is so used to bending over and taking it from Ferrari he now does it for everybody ... Irvine (who I never rated as a top flight driver) never played this pathetic!

Pete

 

You maybe... but Ferrari would take the points! Ferrari adjusts its cars to maximize their results given the rules. You don't think they also want to adjust their drivers to do the same given the rules (in this case, the points system)?

Yes, RB often seems to make the safe choice when the bolder drivers make aggressive moves on him. But consider that just two more races like today (MS punted and RB getting 6 points) and RB will in 1st place. I agree, that's insane. Five 1sts should be way more valuable than a couple 2nds and four 3rds... but that's not the rules.

So, RB clearly takes the approach of being really fast when he has open track, strategizing to get open track, working his position in traffic, but avoiding major conflicts that might cost him six points, even if that means risking giving up one point to someone making a brash passing maneuver.

That is best for Ferrari, even if its not best for your viewing entertainment. Personally, I love watching Rubens when he gets on a clear track tear... he is damned fast.

Now, I forget... what does this have to do with Michael's move?

 

Well said!

 

Sure that's like saying that you're driving down I-95 following a car with a safe 5 car lengths, he jams on the brakes for no reason, you ram into him, and you're going to admit it's your fault for running into him and it's perfectly ok for him to jam on the brakes.

try some rational logic, it helps at times.....

 

So from a lifetime of racing, he isn't going to have a bad race??? How many great races has he had? The good far out weigh the bad.
As for pressure, MS is tops in that field, along with all of the great drivers.

 

All I can say is "thank god there's only a week between races right now"

Could you imagine this conversation carrying on for 14 days??

 

Explain that?
OK, there were wrecks that divided the field. Top runners were knocked out and the man who qualified 2nd was put in the back of the field. You are also in Monaco, passing is hardest here. That's why Trulli won and 3rd place was a lap down.
So just because you win, doesn't mean you were the fastest car or the best driver. Panis won the Monaco GP in 96 and where has he been since???? It was not skill at all. Only 3 cars finished. Putter around the track that day and you end up in 3rd. Weehoo! So if only the best drivers win, how long will it take for Trulli to win his next??? A long damn time.

And DC has won at Monaco twice, so is he twice as good as JM??? Yes racing is hard but when top drivers aren't at the front, it gets easier and easier.