I saw a post on F-chat at the begining of the year... And two or three of the guys that hang-out here said the following - "I hope MS wins all the races!" - "I hate JPM!" - "I won't like any driver that might give MS a run for his money!" Just keep in mind the kind of people you are debating with in this thread
Good point. BTW: It is interesting to see the polarization of opinions about MS and JPM in the States. On my recent trip to Europe (and the Spanish GP) I noticed, that almost nobody gives a hoot about JPM. JPM seems to be a big factor here in the States because of his CART background. In Europe he is seen as "just another driver" and an arrogant and loudmouth at that (that's not my opinion, just repeating what I saw/read/heard).
And for those of you who asked, yes I have ran into my share of rednecks over the years. most of them were not from Georgia though, but were transplants from either up north or out west. And Robb, I have no problem with being gay as I am often gay myself if you are referring to gay as in happy. Now, if you are referring to gay=sodomite, now that's a differnt story. How can you accept the actions of a man that will let another man stick his penis in his rectum? is that something you like? Would you let a man that allows another man to stick his penis in his rectum or vice versa babysit your young child? Tell the truth now! Or, wouldn't you be proud when your son comes home to visit from college with his boyfriend. That is aberant behavior that is a result of a mental disorder, evil or both,
Stay on topic Frank. Focus! Your discussion doesn't belong on this thread. I'm sorry your own sexual insecurities and homophobia have shown through. There's still time to change your unchristian ways, God will forgive you. Jesus didn't teach us to be hateful. Don't be so angry and primitive.
Robb, while Jesus does love the sodomite, he still condemns his conduct. And it was your off topic comments that were posted first, not mine!
Holy Crap. What happened to this thread. I thought we were talking about racing. I think that it is a known fact that any driver behind the SC sets the pace, so to speak. It is done all the time on the formation lap by the polesitter and during the restarts after a SC comes out. Truli even noticed that JPM was following MS too closely as he commented that those guys are gonna crash because JPM was too close. And then a few seconds later, it happened. JPM should have allowed more room, especially since he was lapped. On the other hand, MS should have noticed the little sh*t behind him and should have been more conservative in his ways at the time, given that he was being tailgated. So, I am diappointed that MS crashed out, but am not really blaming anyone in particular for the event, as it was in all its glory - just racing and one car crashed. I do not like JPM in the slightest, but these things happen as the Ferrari team has stated. I really like the Ferrari team and pull for them constantly. I also like Truli and all the other drivers. But JPM just rubs me the wrong way. It's kinda like the Dallas Cowboys, you either love em or hate em. In this case I hate both. As my hat says: "I'd rather have my sister live in a whorehouse, than to have my brother play for the Dallas Cowboys." Now let's see where this thread goes!!!! All in good fun - of course. my
Payne, you are not understanding the rules. You can not pass. You can not try to pass and you can't play chicken with other drivers by moving into their space. These are had fast rules and are in use every day. All cars go side to side to create heat in the tires. So if you are allowed to get alnog side when ever you want, there would be wrecks every race beacuse of it. Not only that but then jm could pull up and take MS out and say "I wasn't going to pass him". So jm SHOULD NOT have been there. He wasn't allowed to be there. There wasn't action taken beacuse MS had a lock up. I think if MS's brakes were fine and jm did that, he would be in deep s***. You can't drive where ever you want. It's a full course yellow. No Passing. No attempts to pass and No playing chicken. How else can we explain this to you? Is there somthing else that isn't clear?
I agree. If MS had not locked the brakes, the outcome on the investigation would have been totally different. JPM would have been penalized. I really think JPM was just not paying attention when MS started his motions. Maybe he was on his cell phone, looked up, saw MS braking and all he could do was go right. my
Also, I suspect that IF JPM would have hit the wall as well and crashed out, he would have been thrown into one of his rants. wah wah wah MS blew it for me wah wah wah. I lose because everyone else can't drive wah wah wah. He broke my F*cking head wah wah wah . my
I just received a private e-mail from this clown tifosi12 bashing me for bringing up the sodomite issue. However, if he took the time to read this thread, he would see that I was only responding to a post by Rob directed at me. Do you suppose he sent the same type private e-mail to Rob ? Same with my comment about rednecks, while I did earlier call MS a German redneck, that was within the topic of the thread whereas the posts by asianbond and 62 250 gto were directed toward me. I guess that's the way it is with mental midgets and self appointed thread police.
tifosi12 rightly identified this thread as having some "issues", so I instructed him to post on here giving BOTH of us a warning. Even I deserve a warning now and then. tifosi12, don't be afraid to publicly warn me too, I'm not above the law. Frankie and I both deserved to get our hands slapped. Please be nice to the mods, they're doing a volunteer job the best they can to keep this a decent place.
I don't consider a personal message/email as hiding, but rather as a friendlier way of dealing with these things as opposed to publicly bash somebody.
No need to patronize, I asked this earlier in the thread and got an answer which led me to this line of thought. Is being next to someone under safety car EXPLICITLY against the rules? Is it explicitly against the rules to do either of that even when the driver in front has a problem? If the answer is yes to all those points than of course JPM was at fault. These are geniune questions from someone wanting to learning more.
Not totally sure on this, but I believe pulling up ot one's side is not against the rules. Passing is. I think the rules with the safety car are the same in the warm up lap, where drivers routinely do short sprints to warm up the cars and end up next to each other. If memory serves me right, MS once got punished (Silverstone?) for passing Hill (?) behind the safety despite the fact, that he immediately corrected the situation. This issue came up a few years ago, when DC (?) spun out behind the pace car on the warm up lap in Melbourne. The following drivers were officially not allowed to pass him, but of course everybody did without any consequences. So as far as JPM goes: What he did was not against the rules.
Thank you very much for your input. It logically did not make sense to me that any of this was JPM's fault. It even looks like if JPM did end up passing him he would have gotten no penalty, considering the extenuating circumstances. Or not, maybe they would have said he was just simply too close. Moot point though considering he didn't pass him.
So you can crowd a driver all the way around the track? Think about that. You can not be beside a driver during a yeallow flag. If you could, then teams would use it as a way for the car in front NOT to be able to warm up his car. There is a right way and a wrong way to follow a pace car. If RS could slow down to avoid Alonso at race speed, then jm was able to slow down behind MS. He chose to drive around MS and the pair collided. juan shouldn't have been there. Why dodn't F1 cars pair up during warm up anf yellow laps??? Because the cars need their space to warm up..
I've watched this debate rage on for 11 pages and I've noticed several themes here... 1. Many F-Chat people do not see grey areas- just black/white. 2. These same people think MS is a god. 3. They also think JPM is not worthy of an F1 ride. 11 pages worth. You guys need to get a life- hell, I do too for reading through that all. Here's a post to this thread hopefully matching it in longwindedness. Here's my take on the entire situation. All my own opinion... flame if you want, it's really of no consequence to me. MS is not as skilled as many think he is- and his lapses over the years show that and especially this latest one. He can rip off incredible lap times, but his actual racecraft is not that strong (which is why he gets rattled when someone is breathing down his neck)- and yes, there's a difference between a fast driver and a race driver. Senna and Prost were both race drivers... Senna was also an incredibly fast driver too... and that's the difference. In these modern times someone like Webber is far more impressive than MS. Back to the topic- MS started to warm up his brakes/tires in the lowest visiblity/coldest area of the track... moronic at best. His subsequent tire lockup that resulted in that choice caused a chain reaction. He knew that a backmarker was behind him, following closely (F1 cars have mirrors too, you know)- a backmarker who he has some bad blood with. What were MS's intentions? To force JPM on the marbles on the left side of the circuit- where we saw FA slide into the wall earlier (iirc teh sequence of events) when brother Ralph decided that was the only place he would let FA by? To commit a tire lockup with a car right behind him forced the backmarker to take the one clean route- to the right, beside the wall- since MS's locked brakes indicated to anyone who has a brain that EVERYONE'S tires were cold- especially on the coldest part of the circuit. So what does MS do after his lockup (and the transition from being out of control to being back in control of his car)? Instead of thinking about NOT creating any other sudden moves, he promptly swerves over to the right for no apparent reason without regard to anyone else (most importantly, himself). In the end, his mistake under yellow (why was he locking up his brakes...) cost him the race. To complain about being hit from behind shows he is doing what a lot of people in this world do... passing the buck instead of taking responsiblity for his own actions. Could JPM have done something different to avoid that collision? Maybe. Then again, maybe MS could have just avoided the whole thing to begin with by not locking up his tires and getting out of control.
Yes you MUST follow the car/driver in front. That is pretty damn clear. I've been stuck behind an idiot in a SC situation and he let a huge gap develop in front of him (like 100's of metres) and I could do nothing about it. I could not even get along side him to signal him or anything. I just had to follow. SC car relatively new to F1 and I think their rules are not tight enough ... maybe? GTRPower's response is spot on and also why MS threw his helmet. I say again 80% of the fault lies with MS ... Pete ps: Mr Payne, will you please learn how to do quote and your responses properly makes your posts so hard to read. Just use: [quot*e=whoever]Insert their text here followed by[/quot*e] Note: I inserted the * so you could see the formatting text.
I understand how one has to follow. I do not understand why one can't be beside another person. I agree that they might not be tight enough. After the fact though. I'm sorry about the text formatting. I bold my words so they appear clearly to other people (using [*b] and [*/b] markers). Does it not show up like this to other people? I've found this way is easier to address specific points that other users make. Do other people not see my bold marks? Oh, and I know how to do quotations.
Yes, but when I reply to your posts (done the 'old' way) your response is not automatically quoted ... thus I have to copy it and then decide to remove your comments (or the other persons) or just quote the whole thing Thanks for giving the quotes a go. Pete
