One and all Connolly leather thread for Vintage Ferrari | Page 4 | FerrariChat

One and all Connolly leather thread for Vintage Ferrari

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by BBBBBBB, Oct 16, 2015.

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  1. BBBBBBB

    BBBBBBB Formula Junior

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    Ben
    #76 BBBBBBB, Oct 22, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2015
    I think we need to understand that tanning with vegetable colors is not something new in early XX century. That was common standard in the leather production already centuries and thousands of years before.

    I think in saying "the first" it is meant Franzi was a leading company in the small segment of leather factories still using vegetable color in the early XX century.

    Vegetable colored leather has been broadly substituted by other production technics before the early XX century. That makes the Franzi leathers and the Connolly leathers so very special as they continued to produce with vegetable colors in "modern" times.

    Ben
     
  2. BBBBBBB

    BBBBBBB Formula Junior

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    #77 BBBBBBB, Oct 22, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2015
    Please let us all share picture/s of the old genuine original Franzi leathers seen in untouched Ferrari interiors, how thick they are and if they still have a perfume ?
    Ben
     
  3. BBBBBBB

    BBBBBBB Formula Junior

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    Ben
    #78 BBBBBBB, Oct 23, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  4. BBBBBBB

    BBBBBBB Formula Junior

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    #79 BBBBBBB, Oct 25, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  5. jcavalie

    jcavalie Formula Junior
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    #80 jcavalie, Oct 26, 2015
    I will post pictures when I get back from traveling. Later this week. I'm pretty certain my interior is original. I will post back with pictures. My seats could use some leather conditioning, but I've been afraid to touch them. As for perfume - what should they smell like? Car has a wonderful old car smell to it, but I thought it was accumulation of years of driving - gas, exhaust, grease, leather all melded into one unique scent. Wish I was near the car right now to go sit in it and take in the scent. Hmm.
     
  6. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Mar 2, 2005
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    #81 Marcel Massini, Oct 26, 2015
    #124357.

    Marcel Massini
     
  7. Enigma Racing

    Enigma Racing Formula 3

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    #82 Enigma Racing, Oct 26, 2015
    Although it is also a reminder that it was sewn by hand
     
  8. BBBBBBB

    BBBBBBB Formula Junior

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    #83 BBBBBBB, Oct 27, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2015
    Fantastic, keen to see your pictures of your original untouched FRANZI interior (1966 330 GTC Nero Franzi).

    That is amazing to hear. 50 years, well almost, is a really long time.
    Ben
     
  9. BBBBBBB

    BBBBBBB Formula Junior

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    #84 BBBBBBB, Oct 27, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2015
    jcavalie:

    Thanks for the input regarding leathercare for Connolly, Franzi etc.

    I will come soon come back to this theme. So far you are here the first to mention it.
    This is one of the many Connolly (and Franzi and other) themes to speak about.

    I understand we have many themes here to speak, discuss, share for many years to come.

    Ben
     
  10. BBBBBBB

    BBBBBBB Formula Junior

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    #85 BBBBBBB, Oct 27, 2015
    Hmm...Italian companies and individuals in "prima repubblica", thus in that period were not necessary always acting in logic manner, sometimes somebody could have winning "arguments"...

    Did you already ask Ferrari Classiche ?
    Is here an expert in this question please ?
    Any ideas ?
    Ben
     
  11. jcavalie

    jcavalie Formula Junior
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    #86 jcavalie, Oct 27, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Here are some pictures. Hopefully not too many. From my Massini report, my car shipped in Nero Franzi. AFAIK, the interior is original. My Massini report documents the early ownership of the car and a few later owners. I tracked down most of the owners from 1980 on (when it came to the USA) and have spoken to them about the car and what they had done. At this point, I'm only aware of it being painted from Grigio Medio to Nero sometime in the early 1980s. It also went from Borranis to alloys and back to Borranis along the way.

    There is no mention of any interior restoration or work in any of my documentation or from any of the owners with whom I've spoken, so my best guess is the interior is original.

    In the pictures, I tried to make visible the wear on the piping and where some threads could use some maintenance on the seat bottom. I also tried to show some minor cracking on the passenger seat bottom - outside. You can also clearly see the gloss or sheen mentioned above, characteristic to Franzi.

    There is one place where leather comes off the back and goes around the frame to the bottom, hiding the hinge, I guess. That leather has a raw edge. I couldn't photograph it, but it appears that the edge profile has a lighter colored base and a darker colored top - where the pigment is. That piece of leather measured about 2mm thick.

    As for perfume - while I never would have thought about it - the aroma in the car does appear to emanate mostly from the leather. It has a sort of sweet essence to it. Sorry - I'm not really very good at describing smells! I climbed in and out a few times clearing my nose - and the leather is definitely the source of what I termed the "wonderful old car smell."

    Sorry the pictures aren't great. Weather is lousy today so I took them in my garage as best I could. Car isn't a garage queen, but I don't have time tonight to drive it properly before putting it away.

    Enjoy!
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  12. BBBBBBB

    BBBBBBB Formula Junior

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    #87 BBBBBBB, Oct 28, 2015

    Fantastic pictures, many thanks for sharing.

    Your interior is in excellent shape for its roughly 50 years of use.

    May i ask you to check if it is all Nero Franzi leather or if some parts made by leatherette ?

    It is a 330 GTC interior in Nero Franzi and we surely need your input here regarding the surfaces of:

    Front seat
    Rear seat
    Door panel
    Dog leg panel
    Wheel well coverings
    Package shelf
    Strip glued under rear window
    Tunnel
    Console
    Gear shift boot
    Arm rest between the rear seat
    Hump between rear floor sections
    Hand brake cover
    Fuel lid release lever surround

    A pillar
    B pillar
    Dash
    Padded bolster at bottom of dash
    Door arm rest
    Foot well kick panel
    Bolster under door window
    Bolster under quarter window
    Trunk catch bar surround

    The four trim pieces around the headliner

    Leatherette is an artifical material with its typical characteristics and no perfume, usually it is thinner than Nero Franzi.

    Ben
     
  13. BBBBBBB

    BBBBBBB Formula Junior

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    #88 BBBBBBB, Oct 28, 2015
    jcavalie:

    May i ask you to share some pictures of the exterior of your marvellous car ?
    330 GTC nero / nero Franzi, surely a stunner !

    Ben
     
  14. jcavalie

    jcavalie Formula Junior
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    #89 jcavalie, Oct 28, 2015
    Thank you, Ben! There is one exterior picture on my profile. I will upload more if I can dig up any decent ones. If not, I'll take the car for a ride later this week and take some new ones. As for all your questions on the interior. Give me a couple days to try to sort out those answers. Might be tonight, but can't commit - have to work on my son's Halloween costume with him. :)

    Thanks! Jim
     
  15. El Wayne

    El Wayne F1 World Champ
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    #90 El Wayne, Oct 28, 2015
    Ben, Jim's car is s/n 8833. You can find plenty of pics of this car here: 1966 Ferrari 330 GTC

    Not that we wouldn't like to see more, but these should do until Jim gets a chance to post some pics of his own. :)
     
  16. BBBBBBB

    BBBBBBB Formula Junior

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    #91 BBBBBBB, Oct 28, 2015
    El Wayne:
    thanks a lot !
    Ben
     
  17. jcavalie

    jcavalie Formula Junior
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    #92 jcavalie, Oct 28, 2015
    Thanks El Wayne. Forgot FJ keeps the listings online. They took lots of nice picts. I'll add more also though, when I get a chance.
     
  18. jcavalie

    jcavalie Formula Junior
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    #93 jcavalie, Oct 29, 2015
    Ben - I'll go through the car and check all this stuff - but off the top of my head, the seats and luggage straps are leather. The pillars, headliner, sunshades are all ivory vinyl. The dash, center console, knee pads, door panels and door armrests are all black vinyl. From my understanding, vinyl was a new and "exotic" product back then and Ferrari used it fairly extensively in cars of this era. Keith Bluemel's book talks about all the vinyl surfaces in GTCs.

    Some of the detail you requested doesn't apply (GTCs are 2 seaters, no gear shift boot, under dash umbrella emergency brake with no boot, etc) and some I've honestly not paid close enough attention to be able to answer without looking. So stay tuned for more.

    Best
    Jim
     
  19. BBBBBBB

    BBBBBBB Formula Junior

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    #94 BBBBBBB, Oct 29, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2015
    Jim,

    Sure, my mistake as i just used the list of the 330 GT as reference.

    Perhaps the use of leather in the nero Franzi interior might be different from the Connolly interiors.

    Yes please check with your car and state here Keith Bluemel's list for the 330 GTC and note where it eventually differs, as this is the Nero Franzi interior.

    Ben
     
  20. BBBBBBB

    BBBBBBB Formula Junior

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    #95 BBBBBBB, Oct 29, 2015
    I feel many of the Franzi cars have already undergone major restaurations including new leather somewhen in the last 30 years, probably not using Franzi leather.

    Ben
     
  21. BBBBBBB

    BBBBBBB Formula Junior

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    #96 BBBBBBB, Nov 1, 2015
    Just a short update:

    I would love to see not only pictures of the interiors of the cars featured in this thread, but a small number of pictures of the exterior of the featured cars as well.

    This thread is planned to go on for many years and more, therefore i think it would be nice to not only seeing leather and interiors, but up to 2 pictures of the exterior of the featured car (e.g. with open door/s showing the interior and a good part of the paint).

    Already asked the competent global administrator to make sure this to being clearly and without doubt authorized (as we dont want to risk to go "off-topic"). Still waiting for the reply.

    Ben
     
  22. yale

    yale Formula Junior

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    #97 yale, Nov 2, 2015
    I do not think that is the original leather interior on those seats, of course I could be wrong. But they don't look exactly right from these photos and the sale copy does not mention original interior.
     
  23. jcavalie

    jcavalie Formula Junior
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    #98 jcavalie, Nov 2, 2015
    I'd be curious what you think doesn't look exactly right, as I'm not an expert. I'm also curious to which "sale copy" you are referring.

    Over the last year I've done a considerable amount of research on this car and have been able to speak with almost every owner since the car was imported from the UK to the USA in the early 1980s. I also spoke with most of the dealers that listed or sold the car along the way. I did my best to document my conversations in my notes, and where possible, get info emailed to me. I have all known service records since 2000 and those only indicate mechanical maintenance and servicing.

    From this research, I'm reasonably certain the leather seat covers are original. While the owners in the Italy and UK years are documented in the Massini Report, there is the possibility someone modified something in those first 14 years, of which I'm unaware. Below are some of the references I have from sales listings.

    - Massini Report: Indicates car was delivered new in 1966 in Nero Franzi
    - 2003/Aston Martin of New England: "...original interior still fitted, repainted once..." [Note: The repainting once was confirmed by the owner who brought the car to the USA from the UK and commissioned the repainting from the original Grigio Medio to the current Nero.]
    - 2003/Aston Martin of New England: "The interior is 80% original with just the front carpet and center console having been retrimmed."
    - 2012/Canepa: "The dash, console, and knee pad have been recovered in original materials; the original seats are being rebuilt with new padding, while reusing the original leather seating surfaces..."
    - 2014/Fantasy Junction advertisement in FML: "...what is believed to be original upholstery."

    So...from this info, it feels to me like the interior leather is still original.

    I'm open to further thoughts and opinions on this!

    Thanks!
     
  24. Jim575

    Jim575 Karting

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    #99 Jim575, Nov 3, 2015
    Hello All
    I've really enjoyed reading this thread. The photo posted above where the stitching has split in the seam is a good indicator of period originality. Sewing thread has not been made like this since the late sixties to early seventies. Thread was usually made from pure cotton without any synthetics and this was the daily routine of my early apprenticeship was spent unpicking and restitching these back sewn pleats together.
    For what it's worth I hope this might help.
    I will shortly re-trim my car in VM3218 and can post photos if anyone is interested.
    Jim
     
  25. BBBBBBB

    BBBBBBB Formula Junior

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    #100 BBBBBBB, Nov 3, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
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