News

One and all Connolly leather thread for Vintage Ferrari

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by BBBBBBB, Oct 16, 2015.

  1. BBBBBBB

    BBBBBBB Formula Junior

    Jun 6, 2015
    345
    Full Name:
    Ben
    #201 BBBBBBB, Dec 1, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  2. To remove this ad click here.

  3. BBBBBBB

    BBBBBBB Formula Junior

    Jun 6, 2015
    345
    Full Name:
    Ben
    Mr. F J CONNOLLY's personal vintage Ferrari F40 is a little bit younger but believed to be of interest for us.

    Delivered new on 28th November 1991 by Maranello Concessionaires Ltd to the one former owner, Mr F J CONNOLLY of London, suppliers of leather to Ferrari.

    Reputedly the only F40 to undergo a Ferrari-sanctioned re-trim in dark tan CONNOLLY hide due to Mr CONNOLLY's relationship with the factory as a supplier for its other models, the supercar was used for business as well as pleasure.

    H+H auction October 14, 2015 estimated GBP 800.000: not sold.

    http://www.classic-auctions.com/UserFiles/pdf/402151991FerrariF40.pdf

    1991 Ferrari F40 Auction - Classic Car Auctions & Sale - H&H
     
  4. BBBBBBB

    BBBBBBB Formula Junior

    Jun 6, 2015
    345
    Full Name:
    Ben
    #203 BBBBBBB, Dec 2, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  5. BBBBBBB

    BBBBBBB Formula Junior

    Jun 6, 2015
    345
    Full Name:
    Ben
    just a quick note:

    imho the majority of the CONNOLLY and FRANZI equipped vintage F have lost their original leather during the last decades.
    Ben
     
  6. BBBBBBB

    BBBBBBB Formula Junior

    Jun 6, 2015
    345
    Full Name:
    Ben
    I myself will continue posting after the holidays. In the meantime looking forward to more posts from fellow readers.
    Ben
     
  7. To remove this ad click here.

  8. jcavalie

    jcavalie Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Jun 4, 2005
    597
    Oakland, CA
    Full Name:
    Jim
    I know HVL has been mentioned in this thread, but I just stumbled on their website (HVL Class Leather® - Home). Looks like they also reproduce Franzi-like leather for cars like mine that are not Connolly. I don't currently have a need, I just found that interesting.
     
  9. ersatzS2

    ersatzS2 Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 24, 2009
    818
    Norfolk VA
    HVL provided the Connolly replacement for my GTC when Gary Maucher did the seats, and I've been on their email list ever since. This just came across:

    A total new update of our extra website HVL Class Leather® - Home is finished and made to keep our customers informed about our quality of work, classic leathers, carpets, fabrics and more.
    At “ About HVL “we do give an explanation about how we came to decisions of why we try to keep our none tolerance policy in making originality of upholstery works, fabrics, carpets and classic leathers.
    On “Photos” rare cars or cars from special owners will show up . Please see how the Ferrari Daytona Proto type finally ended up at the Maranello Ferrari Museum
    Please see “other product in stock” and find our classic fabrics , carpets , vinyl’s , headlining hoodpads and a lot more.
    We are now working on the certificate of originality which contains and guarantees that our classic car leather hides are absolute exact in quality, colour, tannin treatment and finish like they were made from times that old original factories did still exist.
    We get a lot of positive reactions from car collectors and historian who appreciate our passion and dedication for many Years .

    Kindly regards,
    Henk van Lith

    HVL Exclusive Italian Interiors
    Dreef 60
    4014 ML Wadenoijen
    The Netherlands
    T: +31 (0) 344 661610
    F: +31 (0) 344 661616
    E: info@carinteriors.nl
    I: HVL - Exclusive Italian Interiors
    I: HVL Class Leather® - Home
     
  10. andre#4

    andre#4 Rookie

    Jul 29, 2011
    36
    From what I gather, the stuff of Mr. van Lith appears to be the closest visual match to Connolly Vaumol.

    I have asked him for samples of VM3209 and VM3171

    Will report asap.

    Very important to try to save what original interiors are left, as they will amount to under 10% of population or less.

    If it gets to zero, we have no template by which to judge retrims, and also, 50 year old Connolly hide is exquisite if preserved.

    Cheers
    Andre #4 (who predicted fast rise in prices of Fiat era flat 12 cars, amidst many naysayers! )
     
  11. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    14,789
    You may want to try Andrea Maieli in Mantova, Italy.
    Or Daniel Schweinfurth in Dällikon near Zurich, Switzerland.
    Both absolutely first class and excellent material and work.

    Marcel Massini
     
  12. To remove this ad click here.

  13. andre#4

    andre#4 Rookie

    Jul 29, 2011
    36
    Has anyone duplicated the smell of the connolly hides in any new replacement? I believe this question asked but not answered in early pages.

    HVL Class claims to duplicate smell according to web site as I recall, but has anyone smelled it in a reupholstered car? Every reupholstered car I have ever been in smelled either like a brand new car or like a new leather jacket. It never smelled anything like a connolly interior from an original car. Does this experience match everyone elses?

    (I am not trying to belittle anyone's efforts to duplicate Connolly for restoration purposes, particularly HVL. But since the Connolly process is a trade secret, and the new Connolly reportedly does not have the smell of the old or the look of the old, it may be lost forever and may also be legislated out possibility of production in the first world. I thought that the reason Connolly brothers had to stop was on account of new pollution laws. I read this years ago and it may be patently false as much printed material is. But as long as the process is secret we will never know if it is indeed illegal or impractical to do with current waste disposal laws, anti poisoning laws for water and runoff, etc. Perhaps an effort could be hatched on an offshore barge or in eastern europe or asia? (not bloody likely)

    Does everyone agree the vaumol is vegetable tanned?

    How is it dyed? Vat dyed or drum dyed? or spray dyed? or both? or other?

    What is difference between vat dye and drum dye?

    What was the original color dye made from? Acrylic Lacquer? Nitrocellulose Lacquer? Other solvent or water based dye?

    It would be nice to know approximately what the process is that we are supposed to be duplicating here.

    Next paragraph is about saving the original Vaumol hyde in a 50 year old car with almost perfect original leather:

    Is it prudent to use the new water based dyes for light recolouring of entire sections of seats? I refer to products such as Gliptone "Liquid Leather" dye system, or Leatherique system? This is as opposed to the old method of spraying new lacquer which admittedly does not look or feel right and also seems to ruin the chances of the leather to last on account of it seals it up. I have one car with wonderful original vaumol leather, but some sections were lightly reconnollised with lacquer spray many years ago to cover places where original dye wore off. I can't stand this stuff. Dealers used this stuff to make imperfect interiors look brand new during their sales push. I intend to remove this foul coating (I feel it is vandalism actually) from those areas. I will try to use some mineral spirits or something to remove this re-dyed spray can stuff. Luckily it is not all over everything. probably recoulour with a water based dye from liquid leather which I purchased which was matched to the original colour from a sample under the seat. I was impressed by the process as it is designed and explained. I hope this does not seal up any chances for the leather to breathe, or seal up any chance for future leather conditioner to be used effectively.


    The following is not related to F cars directly but somewhat ties into discussion and is interesting
    :
    Here are a couple off topic examples of environmental legislation in the US:

    1. In united states currently we have the comical (but tragic) situation of a major city selling badly poisoned water to every citizen for over a year so far through the city pipes and meters, and if any of these citizens turn on the tap, they are committing crimes as it is illegal to dispose of poison in the drain!)

    That's an extreme situation but many new laws simply make it illegal to manufacture proper products.

    2. Lead solder is another example of a product made illegal to produce even though this is needed for proper reliable performance in some electrical and electronic devices and controls. A moratorium was made for critical medical devices and some other critical items such as nuclear plant control devices etc, but that moratorium expires soon so we will have faulty medical devices and nuclear plants in order to save the earth from possible exposure to a tiny amount of one of its own elements which could be recycled anyway.

    Now certainly, the proper Connolly leather smell is more important than the control of nuclear plants and medical devices!
     
  14. The Red Baron

    The Red Baron Formula Junior

    Jan 3, 2005
    927
    Full Name:
    Warren
    Connolly Leather 3238.
    Any one have a picture of what type of blue that is.
    Thanks.
     
  15. Simon1965

    Simon1965 Karting

    Feb 8, 2011
    249
    HKSAR
    Full Name:
    Simon
  16. The Red Baron

    The Red Baron Formula Junior

    Jan 3, 2005
    927
    Full Name:
    Warren
    Thanks Simon but can not find 3238 there.
     
  17. Fennicus

    Fennicus Formula Junior

    Apr 10, 2015
    472
    Helsinki, Finland
    Full Name:
    Pekka T.
    Hi,

    Sorry, I don't have it in my swatches, but perhaps you could repost it in this ca. one year old thread:

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/vintage-thru-365-gtc4-sponsored-vintage-driving-machines/502751-one-all-connolly-leather-thread-vintage-ferrari.html?highlight=Connolly

    (Did a search with the word "Connolly")

    It has a lot of information and people with more original samples and more information than me (M. Massini, Ben) could have the answer for you.

    Jonathan Connolly himself made one posting in that thread, perhaps he could have another look if nobody can find the right sample for you.

    Cheers,

    Pekka T.
    Fin.
     
  18. Fennicus

    Fennicus Formula Junior

    Apr 10, 2015
    472
    Helsinki, Finland
    Full Name:
    Pekka T.
    Hi again,

    Sorry if this is kindergarten stuff, but a google search for "Connolly VM.3238" came up with this hit on the Connolly Brothers website:


    https://www.google.fi/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.connollybros.co.uk%2FResources%2Fblue_moo-sb_blue58_67_moo1-1p3_.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.connollybros.co.uk%2Fcolourrange.html&docid=htfARl73zd_UuM&tbnid=Z6sKppi9XHyozM%3A&w=756&h=501&bih=671&biw=1024&ved=0ahUKEwir7NePuvXOAhXDPZoKHUkIDXgQMwgrKBIwEg&iact=mrc&uact=8

    To my eyes it looks like a greenish, somewhat tuquoise tint of blue. No idea what ot may have been called. You would need the information from a period brochure or from the build sheet.

    Cheers,

    Pekka T.
    Fin.
     
  19. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    14,789
    Again: Ferrari factory build sheets (Foglio di Montaggio) do NOT list the colors of the car. never. The build sheets contain the technical and mechanical details, but no colors, neither exterior nor interior color.

    Marcel Massini
     
  20. kare

    kare F1 Rookie
    Consultant

    Nov 11, 2003
    3,259
    That picture shows sample of VM3015.
     
  21. Fennicus

    Fennicus Formula Junior

    Apr 10, 2015
    472
    Helsinki, Finland
    Full Name:
    Pekka T.
    :eek:

    Sorry! You're right, it does, although I did search for "Connolly VM.3238". :(

    So it looks like nobody has a sample? And I guess this is the problem some people then face if their build sheet determines a rare colour, or a special order. Perhaps someone could ask the Connolly Brothers?

    Cheers,

    Pekka T.
    Fin.
     
  22. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    14,789
    And once again: factory build sheets never list colors. You cannot find colors on a build sheet.
    See also post #6.

    Marcel Massini
     
  23. Fennicus

    Fennicus Formula Junior

    Apr 10, 2015
    472
    Helsinki, Finland
    Full Name:
    Pekka T.
    Dear Mr. Massini, I am sorry, but we seem to have a constant problem understanding each other.

    What I meant was, that if the build sheet "technical defininition" will use a code like "Connolly VM.3015" or "VM.3238" that would be referring to a colour, right?

    Wasn't that the OP's question?

    Or where do you find the definitions for what paint and what kind of leather were used for a particual car? Or is there another document for every car which is not called a "build sheet" but something else? (I have used "build sheets" as a description for all factory documentation that links details to a particular chassis number, AFAIK the only way to really know what the interior and exterior colours were when as car was first assembled) if it is called something else, like options list or colour definitions just let me know and I will use that word instead.

    Anybody know what colour VM.3238 was? I don't. Trust me, if I did, I would be happy to tell it to the OP.

    Cheers,

    Pekka T.
    Fin.
     
  24. Fennicus

    Fennicus Formula Junior

    Apr 10, 2015
    472
    Helsinki, Finland
    Full Name:
    Pekka T.
    Hello,

    Ok. I hope I get it finally. So what do you (or what did the factory back then) call the documentation that will include the exterior or interior colours orginally used on a particular chassis number when it was first assembled? The paint code or the leather colour code was documented somewhere, right? Otherwise how could even the factory know that at all after all these years.

    Sincerely,

    Pekka T.
    Fin.
     
  25. Fennicus

    Fennicus Formula Junior

    Apr 10, 2015
    472
    Helsinki, Finland
    Full Name:
    Pekka T.
    Hello,

    It's been a while. I was supposed to respond sooner, but had other things on my mind.

    Now I am not saying this is THE solution, but just something I came across and have had in some of my cars and IMHO the scent has been pretty much what I think these things should smell.

    Last Christmas I was also supposed to send one of these together with Season's Greetings to Ben, who started this thread and did most of the contributing, but he freaked out when I asked in private e-mail for his postal address. Now that's ok, I will respect anyone's privacy. And besides I am sure anyone can afford a few of these if interested: (at €3,66/pcs + VAT)

    SNG Barratt - The Ultimate Jaguar Parts Specialist

    Product Code: CH5007

    (and sorry, it looks like the way that web site was made, you'll have to click on a country to get forward, but you can click on any country, I think they use that only to define the currency being quoted)

    Now I did hear form somewhere that if heated, left somewhere where the sun can shine, these can emit an oily substance and cause discoloration. And IIRC the instructions do say that this should NOT be used like a Wunderbaum and hang in the rear view mirror, BUT should be placed somewhere hidden, like glove box etc.

    I have just cut the plastic open, but not taken the item out, but placed it as such into the glove box and IMHO it does emit a scent similar to Connolly leather. (Your Nose May Vary)

    Cheers,

    Pekka T.
    Fin.

    PS. AFAIK and in the earlier links and articles it can be read that the dye and the process was/is vegetable oil based. I doubt any volatile chemicals were used, but of course am no expert regarding how to dye leather, so you can read the Connolly articles and from your own idea about how it was done.
     
  26. peterp

    peterp F1 Veteran

    Aug 31, 2002
    6,006
    NJ
    Full Name:
    Peter
    The factory has a separate document called "Conferma Originalità Colori" that recorded the original exterior color, interior color, and the date of manufacture. These certificates used to be made available to car owners upon request to the factory, but they stopped doing that around 2007 or so.
     
  27. johngtc

    johngtc Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Mar 4, 2005
    814
    Yorkshire, UK
    Full Name:
    John Gould
    Another possible source of data is the concessionaire's original order on the factory and/or the factory's acknowledgement of that order.

    In the UK we are very fortunate in that Tony Willis, who formerly worked at Maranello Concessionaires, now operates the Ferrari Archive. This contains documentation on every car that company imported up until the 308 GT/4.

    Perhaps other long term dealers have similar records.
     
  28. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    14,789
    Original factory invoices, original factory delivery notes and the internal factory lists, original factory sales sheets (Foglio Commerciale), etc.

    Marcel Massini
     

Share This Page