One Lap -- which driver--your life depends on it.

Ouch! As noted, everyone's entitled to their opinions.

Did you ever see him drive?

Here's my 02c on the guy; He was *incredibly* naturally talented - A little wild on occasion but was capable of lifting an average car to greatness thru shear force of will. Had he lived I reckon he'd have won multiple titles.

Unfortunately, we'll never know. RIP Gilles.

Cheers,
Ian

 

Senna or Villeneuve or Jim Clark.

The worse handling the car the more chances that it would be Gilles who would be fastest.
The better the car the more chances it would be Clark that is the fastest
For all situations rain, shine, bad, good it would likely be Senna that is overall the fastest.

Honorable props to Bernd Rosemayer and Ronnie Peterson. Mansell when he was in that special mood.

Schumacher, Clark, Prost, Nuvolari, Fangio, Caraciolla would be my picks for fastest over a race distance not single lap.

 

True. RIP

I just think his name gets tossed around in places it shouldn't be, but yes, just my opinion. Particularly in this context, I wouldn't be trusting my life to someone that could only pull of 2 poles in 68 starts.

 

+1 Good coverage of all the bases right there.

Hmmm - Good comments, thanks. Not sure I completely agree, but certainly thought provoking;

- I still believe Jimmy could get more out of a dog (Clifford? ) than anyone else.
- I agree that Gilles could overcome "deficiencies" unlike almost anyone else - At least outside of Jimmy......[I lost the pix I had of him in the Lotus Cortina going thru Bottom Bend at Brands on two wheels - Lap after lap! - It was *awesome* how much quicker he was than anyone else out there.] You mentioned Ronnie - He was another guy that could do that IMO.
- Ayrton was indeed magical at his best.

+1 on your race guys - The Schu simply has to top that list!

Cheers,
Ian

 

I tend to agree; He had huge *potential*, and many of us are certainly guilty of wearing the rose-tinteds when looking back. But man, he was *fast*!.......

+1

For sure, in this context, you'd be taking a hell of a chance with him!

Jimmy, IMESHO () would be the "safest" bet - Good car, mediocre car, bad car - He could get the very best from them all.

Cheers,
Ian

 

Definitely. But I had to go with a guy I've actually seen live for so many years, Schumi in a F2004 around Suzuka would have me confident he'd put it on pole.

 

One assumes you mean with dead equal cars.

I was attending int'l sports car races since the '56 12 Hours of Sebring and F1 races since the 1960 Italian G.P. Among current drivers, there's little question in my mind: Alonso.
All time, if he were the young racer, Juan Manuel Fangio, otherwise, Stirling Moss, with Jim Clark and Alain Prost in a tie for second. But for Fangio, Moss would have had two WDC's, though he did break cars. Maybe the greatest F1 race I ever witnessed was Monaco 1961 when Stirling won in a Lotus down on power by at least 50-60 hp to the Ferraris of Phil Hill and Richie Ginther. For one flying lap, I'd take Stirling.

 

Good choice, and a gentleman racer if there ever was one...

 

Senna on any track except for Suzuka, in that case I would pic Prost. I feel like Prost dominated on that track and even Senna knew that.

I would love to see Alonso drive the Mclaren/Honda of that golden age too.

 

well said and true, BUT are we talking about setting pole or fastest lap in a race. when it came to "race' conditions and a "banzai' lap was the requirement, your life depended on it. then i think its fair to say that gilles would have risked his life to do it. i know thats why he would be my first choice.

 

Senna
Hakkinen
Schumacher

in that order

 

Stirling Moss,
or his own two choices as drivers for a Formula One team:
Jim Clark and Tony Brooks, the "Unknown Genius"...

 

Carroll Shelby in his prime

Senna

&

Vettel

 

Clark
Senna
Mansell

 

Not joking at all. We are referring to one lap with everything on the line. Not in an "iffy" or uncompetitive car-in the same car, for one "balls out lap"? Mansell.

He was one of the few drivers to pass Senna in an equal or even lesser car, was as fast or faster than anyone with a good car and as another poster said, in that "special" mood.
A World Champion, multiple record holder, Indy Series Champ, ran very competitively in the saloon cars well past his prime. Temperamental, moody and full of excuses when the car/team were crap? undoubtedly, but that isn't the discussion here, is it?

As to whether or not Mansell would consider mentioning him in the same sentence with other great drivers "a great disservice"-well, you obviously haven't followed the man's career. I doubt that he'd concede that anyone could beat him in an equal car.

Besides, with so many fantastic drivers over the years to chose from its all just web banter anyway, with no real "right" answer.

 

+1 These threads seem to gain momentum during the break as we're all going stir crazy. As you say, there really isn't a "right" answer. And thanks for reading my opinion "as intended."

Fair enough. I'm sticking with Jimmy, but as noted, we're all entitled to our opinions.

All fair comments. Certainly, anyone who wins the WDC is not a total loser, but I believe his was one of, and probably *the* luckiest ever. Half the grid would have won in that car.

More telling IMO is that Sir Frank let him walk away as the reigning WDC. Now, we know he's not big on paying huge retainers and Nigel's ego wanted to be paid *top* money but IIRC it was quite the "scandal" at the time - They should have been able to reach agreement.

As for the Indy series win; Just goes to show how poor that series was back then! The counterpoint is that the same season Michael Andretti (then the reigning Indy car champion?) came to Mclaren (no less) and got his doors completely blown off....... We can debate that he "wasn't into it" blah blah, but he only lasted a handful of races before Ron said "be gone!" - A very unusual move as we know.

As for that "special mood", the joke at the time was it all depended on the time of the month with him.

You're correct (!) I let my dislike of the guy get ahead of my brain here! I admit I was wrong to say that and stand corrected. For sure, he believed he was the finest racing driver to ever hit the face of the earth. He could have walked on water had he so chosen. And if he failed, it would be the waters fault.

As for following his career, suffice to say here we raced against him in F3. [I was a spanner man BTW] - We were running the same car so often pitted together & compared notes etc. I've previously posted some "tales" from the era which go some way to explaining my dislike of the guy.

Cheers,
Ian

 

Not lucky, he just had a dominant car, has happened a lot in F1 history. You still have to go out and win the races and he absolutely dominated (unlike Jacques Villeneuve, for example, who barely won in a dominant car).

Mansell also got robbed of the WDC in 1986 when his tire blew with 19 laps left in the last race of year. He could have easily won the 1987 title as well had he not crashed in practice at the next to last race and got injured. He was a multiple WDC-caliber driver IMO.

Frank Williams has always treated his drivers like crap, he let Damon Hill go after he won the 1996 WDC so it's not like this behavior was unusual.

 

I think Nigel's exit had more to do with Nigel than Frank. He knew Prost was coming in 1993 and would have wiped the floor with him just like he did at Ferrari in 1990. Demanding a huge salary you know you won't get is a convenient way of leaving the team while not appearing to be running away from a stronger teammate.

Regarding Hill, he was never Schumacher/Hakkinen caliber. Frentzen had shown well in the Sauber and especially back in his sportscar days when he would regularly match Schumacher's pace. I can see why Frank made the decision at the time. Little did he know that HHF couldn't handle Patrick Head's temper and would turn out to be not much more than a rug salesman...

 

Senna

Lauda

Jeter . . .

 

You have every right to speak your opinion..but it´s a dumb one.

 

Ian, did you ever met Gilles in person? I can´t recall if you where still racing when he arrived...but even so, perhaps you met him outside the track or in the padock?
I ask you because to me he is simply the very best that ever was

 

High praise coming from a guy that thinks Ferrari should sack Alonso.

 

Minus 1999!

He was the driver of the year that year, IMO.

 

My problem with Alonso is not he´s driving.
I don´t know what is the real story behind KImi leaving the team, although i suspect it was santander´s money....and i still believe Kimi is better than Alonso, and i wouldn´t be surprised if he catches the spaniard in the points table.
AS for you remark about Gilles, i´m sorry to be so blunt, but if you think that about him, i really can´t understand what makes you watch an f.1 race...maybe you like processions or pitstops.

 

He did great that year. Because he was at Jordan. Patrick Head is much louder and scarier than Eddie!