One Stop Strategy | Page 3 | FerrariChat

One Stop Strategy

Discussion in 'F1' started by Scuderia-Ferrari, Jun 12, 2012.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jan 11, 2008
    41,693
    Sarasota
    Full Name:
    David
    The tires are so mercurial they can't be managed in a consistent manner.
     
  2. tuttebenne

    tuttebenne F1 Rookie

    Mar 26, 2003
    3,218
    Bay Shore, NY
    Full Name:
    Andy
    That said, in thinking about the times being run on Friday in P1 and P2, I don't recall seeing consistent high teens (1:18 was race pace the first few laps). The times were in the 1:16 and lower realm. Is it possible they are not doing enough full tank running to determine what they will be getting from these new skins? THere was some bizarre development testing going on on Friday and it is possible the teams are trading development testing for true full tank running. This sounds crazy I know but you should have seen some of the testing these guys were doing. Did Speed show the rig Red Bull was running on Vettel's car in P1?
     
  3. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jan 11, 2008
    41,693
    Sarasota
    Full Name:
    David
    It may be that they're so lost that they're trying anything willy nilly.

    While all this speculation is fascinating the bottom line is that the teams have to throttle back their pace for fear that they will have suddenly over taxed their tires. And yes tire wear has always been a factor in motor racing but until this year the teams all had a good idea of what life a tire would provide under a given set of circumstances. This time around there is no possible coherent approach to tire management.
     
  4. tuttebenne

    tuttebenne F1 Rookie

    Mar 26, 2003
    3,218
    Bay Shore, NY
    Full Name:
    Andy
    I'm referring to the test apparatus that was attached to the RedBull. Did you see that?
     
  5. Fast_ian

    Fast_ian Two Time F1 World Champ

    Sep 25, 2006
    23,397
    Campbell, CA
    Full Name:
    Ian Anderson
    Briefly, yeah.

    A big bunch of pitot tubes mounted (IIRC) ahead of the left hand rear tire.

    They were working on aero (obviously!)

    No testing = Friday's become a test/data gathering session, and there's nothing wrong with that either IMO.

    As long as the playing field remains level for all, no problem.

    Cheers,
    Ian
     
  6. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jan 11, 2008
    41,693
    Sarasota
    Full Name:
    David
    The lattice like structure?

    F1 Tecnical Net did a piece on it.
     
  7. Fast_ian

    Fast_ian Two Time F1 World Champ

    Sep 25, 2006
    23,397
    Campbell, CA
    Full Name:
    Ian Anderson
    Not in the case of Lettuce or Checo last weekend though....... They'll probably be absolutely nowhere next week in Spain, but again, that's racin' 2012 style..... Sometimes your car is capable of winning / doing a one stopper / etc, other times it's the other guys turn - As we know, they're *all* incredibly close together - Maybe the only thing that separates 'em is their ability to get the best from the tires (?)

    Indeed - Mostly that's true, but even back in the old days, they've always "blamed" the tires when their strategy failed to pay off. Unless we're talking about no tire changes / wooden tire era's of course. ;)

    However, playing devils advocate again, that's not always been the case when running "competitive" (rather than "spec") tires - Some guys get the best out of 'em - typically for the whole year - Other guys "luck" into a good result occasionally.

    I beg to differ (as do the Mon AM QB's herein it seems! ;)) - It's hard, but get thru your programs on Friday and *hope* the temperature remains the same, and you should be good. Or at least ahead of the other guys that haven't done as good a job.

    The cream will rise. That we don't know exactly who that is I find great! :)

    Cheers,
    Ian
     
  8. Fast_ian

    Fast_ian Two Time F1 World Champ

    Sep 25, 2006
    23,397
    Campbell, CA
    Full Name:
    Ian Anderson
    :)

    Meant to ask; Have you ever raced?

    It's a trap that all but the very best (and even them on occasion) fall into......"Headless chicken mode" happens all too often. ;)

    For example, Jenson seems, and admits to being, clueless right now - IIRC, they changed his ARB (sway bar) on saturday (?) - Don't hear of 'em making those kind of changes anymore - Unless they're in HCM. :)

    Cheers,
    Ian
     
  9. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jan 11, 2008
    41,693
    Sarasota
    Full Name:
    David
    Any plan that involves a step named "then Hope" ....
     
  10. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jan 11, 2008
    41,693
    Sarasota
    Full Name:
    David
    My Analysis is untainted by the bias of personal experience. ;)

    Given how little the years of experience and reams of data have helped the pros I'm not sure of how much a liability that is.
     
  11. Fast_ian

    Fast_ian Two Time F1 World Champ

    Sep 25, 2006
    23,397
    Campbell, CA
    Full Name:
    Ian Anderson
    :D

    You got me again! - Beer on keyboard! (Again)

    "Watch this!" also springs to mind ;)

    Seriously, they do seem very temperature sensitive - But again, tis the same for all.......

    Cheers,
    Ian
     
  12. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jan 11, 2008
    41,693
    Sarasota
    Full Name:
    David
    This same for all logic is flawed.
    When you introduce any random artifact it diminishes the competitive nature of sport and increases the luck factor. Tires that fall off a cliff with no discernible reason are, in fact, a random factor.
    You wouldn't endorse booby trapping the track even if the risk was spread equally among all the racers.
     
  13. LightGuy

    LightGuy Four Time F1 World Champ

    Oct 4, 2004
    46,160
    Texas
    Full Name:
    David
    This is what F1 champions do.
    They will do whatever is needed to get the win.
    If it involves making the tire changers and transport drivers feel important then so be it.
    If it means slitting their throats by selling the team down the river to escape a contract provision (Mclaren) then so be that as well.


    Truth be told I dont see a lot of heros in F1 or professional sports in general.

    Perhaps Ferrari hangs on to Massa for reasons that are not measured in tenths.
     
  14. Fast_ian

    Fast_ian Two Time F1 World Champ

    Sep 25, 2006
    23,397
    Campbell, CA
    Full Name:
    Ian Anderson
    +1 No argument from me there. I guess where our views diverge is your randomness factor.

    There's *always* gotta be a reason - We, the teams, the FIA and even the Pygmy may not understand the reason(s), but I bet Pirelli know what's going on.

    Still doesn't mean anything random is going on though - Sometimes your guys get on top of 'em (the tires, the package, the track temp and the strategy) better than mine, other times not so much. That we've had 7 from 7 isn't random IMO, it's just that the margins are *tinier* than they've ever been - The balance of power is moving in ways F1 has never seen before. But it's not random.

    Cheers,
    Ian
     
  15. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jan 11, 2008
    41,693
    Sarasota
    Full Name:
    David
    No doubt that there is a physical cause but it appears to be one that occurs unpredictably.
    This is effectively the same as random.
    If they haven't nailed it down yet I suspect that the trigger is too fine an event to be dealt with.
    if one team does get a handle on it they'll have a huge advantage. Bigger than RB's last year and voila we're back at square one with a dominent team.
     
  16. Fast_ian

    Fast_ian Two Time F1 World Champ

    Sep 25, 2006
    23,397
    Campbell, CA
    Full Name:
    Ian Anderson
    Not if you believe the Mon am QB's here! ;) They all claimed they'd have pitted Fred again and that it was simply a bad strategy call..... If the peanut gallery can predict it, surely the strategists could too? :)


    Possibly. I don't think there's a solitary trigger though - Many factors are in play.

    If that should happen, we'd all simply have to doff our caps and offer our congratulations! It's happened before, and will happen again IMO - This is *not* spec racing! ;)

    I don't think that will happen as they're just all too close right now though. But, I still say it's not random. :)

    Cheers,
    Ian
     
  17. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jan 11, 2008
    41,693
    Sarasota
    Full Name:
    David
    Again, you don't need to accept randomness to acknowledge the effect.
     
  18. tuttebenne

    tuttebenne F1 Rookie

    Mar 26, 2003
    3,218
    Bay Shore, NY
    Full Name:
    Andy
    Have you noticed that there isn't as much balled up rubber off line as their used to be?

    Did you see how relatively clean Lewis's tires were in Parc Ferme after he drove his victory lap entirely off line?

    Bridgestones shed their carcasses in small bits of rubber while Pirellis don't. Of course there is more to the science of compounds but if your outer layer of rubber is the same rubber you have been driving on for 20 laps, of course the performance is going to fall off.

    Kimi didn't get passed five weeks ago by cars with tires as old as his, and neither did Alonso. When others get a different result, its time to look in the mirror.
     
  19. Fast_ian

    Fast_ian Two Time F1 World Champ

    Sep 25, 2006
    23,397
    Campbell, CA
    Full Name:
    Ian Anderson
    The latest from Hembery;

    As I keep saying, "it's just another engineering challenge to overcome." No randomness to be seen ;)

    I do hope the few Pirelli guys that see everyone's data are not allowed to jump into a team role without a year of gardening leave though - That would really give you an edge...... Hembery is adamant that the guys working with the teams only get to see that data and nobody elses - Only he and a few honcho's know the full story.

    Cheers,
    Ian
    http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/100349
     
  20. f1flagger

    f1flagger Karting

    Oct 21, 2005
    100
    Summerville, SC
    Huh? I was at the light just prior to 7B and was getting rained on with rubber bits after only 10 laps. I've been hit with balled up chunks of rubber bits before, well into the race, but these stayed mostly small, stringy bits the entire race.
     
  21. tuttebenne

    tuttebenne F1 Rookie

    Mar 26, 2003
    3,218
    Bay Shore, NY
    Full Name:
    Andy
    Its interesting. I'm not sure which station is 7B but I know you have worked the hairpin before. In years past there was only one line through the corner. But even at the end of the race this year, there was enough room for passing. Its really odd. I know what you mean because in seeing the race on TV earlier this week, I noticed the rubber in other spots on the track but it wasn't at the hairpin as it had been.

    Off topic, I took some shots of the flaggers at the flag station under the bleachers at the entrance to the hairpin just in case you were working that station this year. Isn't that station 10?
     
  22. bill365

    bill365 F1 Rookie

    Nov 3, 2003
    3,319
    Chicago area
    Full Name:
    Bill
    Because of the rather unpredictable lifespan of the present tires, I initially thought that they'd pit Alonso while Hammy was going in (if they weren't ready to pit him, it was a mistake) then I thought that they'd surely pit Fred after McLaren's botched stop... but alas no.

    The rest is history. :(
     
  23. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jan 11, 2008
    41,693
    Sarasota
    Full Name:
    David
    Is he saying that Pirelli knows what's happening but won't share it with the teams?
     
  24. Fast_ian

    Fast_ian Two Time F1 World Champ

    Sep 25, 2006
    23,397
    Campbell, CA
    Full Name:
    Ian Anderson
    #74 Fast_ian, Jun 16, 2012
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2012
    I don't think so, although theres a few Pirelli folk who know more than anyone else what's happening as they're the only ones who get to see everyone's data...... My understanding is each team has a few dedicated Pirelli guys (one per car?) that only get to see 'their' teams data. Said data is then given to Hembery (and a few others) who can consolidate it and so on.

    What they don't (better not!) do is share what, eg, Ferrari have learnt with Mclaren.

    Cheers,
    Ian
     
  25. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jan 11, 2008
    41,693
    Sarasota
    Full Name:
    David
    Makes sense.
    Still what ever the trigger is it seems a bit too sensitive.
     

Share This Page