One thing learned about Ferrari going public

Well there are those minor details to take care off first on their way to true luxury brand status.

 

If you visit any of their stores it becomes very obvious that many of the items just have a logo slapped on them.

What they need (assuming they want to continue down the path they're on) is the equivalent of Porsche Design. A brand/luxury approach that isn't all about the logo but actually about the product.

 

Uh... I like the way Alain de Cadenet said it (objectively) in the Victory by Design series: "Porsche race cars to sell cars, Ferrari sell cars to race cars" This was particularly true during Enzo Ferrari's days, but the heritage remains with the company and to many owners that is part of the facination with the brand, and what you buy into - the myth, the legend, ...

 

True but the motto today could very well be: Ferrari sells cars to race cars to sell merchandise?

During Enzo's days the brand was ~30+ years younger than today. Many people in their 30s and 40s today were heavily influenced by the brand image through miami vice and Magnum PI, as much (or more) than racing involvement during the 80s (which was a pretty dark time for SF if we're being honest). The F40 was THE wallpaper car of that era, from late 80s through the early 90s.

 

Who knows?

But... F1 popularity doesn't really explain where they are selling cars.

Ferrari's biggest markets (not per capita adjusted for rank):
USA - 2700 or about 1 car per 120k people --> high concentrations in NY and Cali (not exactly F1 hotspots)
UK - 1000 or 1 per 65k
Japan / Korea - 700 or 1 per 225k
Germany - 670 or 1 per 120k
China - 450 or 1 per 3mm people

Now, we know that popularity of F1 in the USA is very low relative to the general population and income level, and income levels are similar to Germany overall... yet they have the exact same Ferrari penetration rate (per capita). China is income constrained (though the absolute numbers still make them top 5!) In China, it is more likely the marketing to sell F1 that is catching up with the already obvious brand cachet of Ferrari there, so entirely reverse direction. UK has the highest, though I will assume there are many sales to that area to ex pats of other areas, living in the UK.

Ecclestone Runs Into F-1 Apathy in China as Ferrari Lures Elite - Bloomberg Business

Counter argument but dubious source and "all time high" is pretty obvious, since starting from a very low base overall:
F1 Popularity at an All-Time High in China | Mailman

Overall popularity:
As F1 TV viewing figures continue to fall globally, is there a solution to the problem? | MotorSportsTalk

 

A few years ago I was asked to step in and help turn around a struggling fashion house as new CEO. It was a great name, with some pedigree, but not a super bottom line. Ultimately, I ended up not taking the gig but not before I learned a ton about luxury brands and their revenue streams. The best and most effective way for these brands to make money (profit, not just revenue) is through licensing agreements and royalty streams that capitalize on their name and stature. Their reputation is essentially a sunk cost. They have paid all the money to build it and make it. They can capitalize upon that with no additional expenditures and make what essentially amounts to pure profit. A good luxury brand would be silly to not look at all of those options as viable inputs to the bottom line.

I'm not going to into a whole discussion/argument about diluting the brand and getting to the point where we have Ferrari branded toilet paper. Nonetheless, it's an import part of the profit margins. Racing plays a very large role in that. I've been told by a very reliable source that 95% of Ferrari merchandise goes to non-owners and substantial percentage of those are F1 fans. They wear Ferrari stuff from head to toe like Yankees fans wear their gear. It's all part of the company and the brand.

This is what initially influenced me more than the racing. In fact, if I were to name the one single thing that more than anything else made me into a gear head, it was the opening scene to Cannonball Run.

However, as I got into my teens, racing played a far bigger role in shaping my marque identification. Ferrari's racing was a huge part of that. And while I had the F40 poster in my room, the successful racing campaigns of the 333SP was a huge influence on me. It is awesome to behold competition and victory. Because I owned volkswagens, I always figured that one day when I made some money I would buy a 911 of some sort but when I actually made some dough I couldn't bring myself to do it - I bought a used Ferrari instead. The racing and history had a major role in that decision and I've been a Ferrari customer ever since (other than a 6 month stretch in there while I was trying to buy my 328 GTB).

 

My point was the catalyst is not always the racing, which you appear to agree with in your personal case. Remember too that you're an enthusiast of the brand and likely not buying it as something to flash around. I assume you got into it through the show because the car seemed different, appealing, interesting.

I got into cars through pictures and seeing them up close once in a while... Eventually I became more focused on the driving characteristics of great sports cars and the performance. F1 was never something I followed closely, but I was definitely a casual viewer and follower.

To contrast, go around the meatpacking district in NYC any (nice) night of the week and look around (applies to club districts anywhere really). You will see multiple Ferraris (or astons, etc) going around at a crawl, revving their engines and with their drivers checking out the women. I've driven through a couple times but not trolling for women, and the roads there are horrible, uneven (interlocking stone), and just asking for any low clearance car to get scraped up bad. But slow drive by and parking in front of the club or restaurant is a big part of the allure and actual usage of these cars.

Many of those buyers are not buying the cars because of the race pedigree. And it's true, that many of those buyers will and do shift to lambos, or other marques.

 

Super_Dave,

No doubt there has been consternation between us. In an internet forum, when you state your opinion, it's very common to receive challenges to your views. That's a huge component of forums: debate and differing views.

I have heavily challenged your posts because as I've said multiple times before, your posts have consistently run antithetical to my experiences. What's more confounding, is your rebuttals often would support the challengers, yet you still find offense.

Let me present this thread as the latest example.

This current engagement stems from your assertion that if Ferrari were to leave F1, it would have no effect on the brand (not my words, yours)

I heavily disagreed, as well as others and you seem offended.

But in a subsequent post you put an article that supports my challenge

In this article, it reiterates my viewpoint (to your credit you acknowledge this)

Quote:
"The core of the Ferrari brand is the Scuderia Ferrari."
"Ferrari still has the ability too make people dream, and that's something a lot of other car brands have lost"
"Luca di Montezemolo, Ferrari's longtime former chairman, always named success in Formula One as a key Ferrari value."

This does not help your original argument, what you need to post is that 'other article' that you mention that states the Ferrari brand is now "separate and distinct" from F1, and that "racing image has very little to do with Ferrari" (again these are your original assertions)

So this leaves me as confused as ever, why would you feel bad if the challenges under your further scrutiny reveal the flaw of your original opinion?

I can name four other instances where the pattern has been similar:

1) You make a bold proclamation (perfectly fair, but one should be prepared for reaction)
2) Be challenged by myself and others on said viewpoint #1
3) Feel offense, but in rebuttals present additional information that supports the challengers, and run counter to your original assertion #1.
4) Repeat with a new topic.

I've observed these 4 steps in every contentious debate you've had with me and others here.
I would be happy to post those four other examples if you like.

I hope this clarifies from my point of view why your posts may not be going as smoothly as you like.

I would recommend if you plan to continue to make bold assertions, be prepared to back them up or at the very least not be offended by opposing view points..otherwise more pedestrian proclamations may be the path to forum happiness here.
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Paul, I don't mind opposing views, I welcome them. It is the delivery, tone, and attitude (largely from you) that I object to.

You even follow me across threads and make wise-crack remarks (and call me a liar, constantly). It is immature and childish.

You quote extensively below but you know I posted that link, right? Why re-hash what I myself read and even linked to?

Your posts often misinterpret source information (the Forbes article for example) and misconstrue differing opinion (the link I provided) as somehow factual.

I can post a differing opinion to my own, cite to it, and still disagree with it. You realize that the evidence for my assertion regarding the brand of Ferrari is more supported by data than the opposing view. That is, its brand awareness is far greater than Formula 1 fandom or popularity. I also posted a link that demonstrated that Ferrari's brand image in China leads any interest in F1.

Common sense also conforms with my assertion since the USA is the largest source of Ferrari sales, yet is a very minor F1 market today.

 

BTW, since (as usual) you doubt me for whatever reason, here is that other article I recalled reading but didn't bother posting a link to (below). Far more reliable source than BI btw.

Ferrari IPO Ready To Go -- Too Bad Its Stock Symbol Is The Equivalent Of A Blown Engine

Also, since you like quotes, I've quoted extensively for you below. I don't actually agree with some of what was written in this article. Also, articles alone never, ever dictate my opinion or views on anything. I absorb information, analyze and assess it, and come to my own logical conclusions, informed but not driven by the views of others too. I rely on my own logic over hype or references to authority, though I certainly put more weight in the assessment of certain folks over others.

"Today’s customers buy Ferraris because they’re expensive and ostentatious status symbols. Not because the cars RACE."

"Ferrari’s racing exploits, past or present, simply aren’t what motivates today’s customer."

"n the 1950s and ‘60s when Ferrari made its bones, movie stars like Steve McQueen joined European princes and jet-setters moonlighting as gentleman racers to form Ferrari’s tuned-in clientele. Today’s customers mostly are vapid celebs, orthodontists from Pasadena and derivatives traders in Geneva who wouldn’t know the Targa Florio from pasta primavera (they are pretty sure, though, that Formula One is that stuff the mansion staff uses to make those granite floors sparkle)."

"RACE is the symbol chosen by a diffident and disconnected Ferrari that can’t quite admit its image – and its cars – have evolved into something rather less heroic than what emerged from its iconic early decades."

"Yes, Ferrari, some of your customers are vaguely aware you race. They might even make the connection that racing has something to do with why people think Ferraris are badass cars. But they do not buy Ferraris – or Ferrari stock – because racing is the first thing they think about when they think “Ferrari.”"

 

Super_Dave,

Yes, I have called you a liar IN PM when you reach out to me IN PM, never in public.

Now that *you*, not me aired out that dirty laundry....

Let's put our cards on the table.

What\Where\Who won the lottery?
Who are your billionaire friends?
Can you prove somehow you own an MP4?
Can you expound how you were able to become self made? (you mentioned it wasn't due to the lottery)
What was the Ivy League schools and Masters/Doctorate you attained?

-Remember these are things *you* disclosed yourself in one way or another to substantiate a viewpoint.

Others here have asked these very questions, and I nor they have ever received a reply.

To be fair, I shall answer the very questions I pose you:

I am not rich, I have never won the lottery, I own a modest Ferrari, I do not have a doctorate, I have no billionaire friends.

Fair?

 

Your post below is (again) proving my point on your behavior.

You have insinuated that I'm lying in multiple posts. Even in threads where there was no conversation directed towards or with you. It seems a very odd (but perhaps flattering?) form of harassment.

Again, not sure why you are so upset towards me. I never insulted your car or anything like that, only posted opinions.

I'm actually confused why the moderators allow this behavior, particularly the cross-posts that follow me around...

 

You can but a lot of crappy merchandise with a Ferrari logo attached.

 

Come on guys, the bickering is getting tiresome.

Paulchua, I don't think he's going to answer your questions, so there's little point in continuing to ask them in here.

Super_Dave, stop overreacting to people asking questions and calm down.

Let's all please steer away from personal frictions and return to cordially discussing the thread topic. Civil decorum will be more firmly enforced from here on.

All the best,
Andrew.

 

Thank you for stepping in here Andrew, I appreciate your time.

I admit I can be over zealous. Super_Dave, please consider this as a public apology for my aggressive mode of questioning. I pledge in full public view, I will no longer ask those questions.

Furthermore, I know we got off on the wrong foot. I hope we can bury that hatchet and have future constructive and respectable discourse.

Be well Super_dave & NueroBreaker

 

I aim to please.



Unfortunately, my aim ain't always so good.

D

 

My armchair observation/ $.02

Other than the people Ive met on this forum, none of my Ferrari owner friends (including myself) know anything about F1 racing. Ive never watched a race and I can say most , if not all of them, have never either.

I agree with Super_Dave that if Ferrari got out of racing it wouldnt have much impact. Maybe short term but at this point Ferrari is stronger than that. Look at Lambo...no racing there and sales are climbing.

Its a different world now.

Hey, maybe Im wrong. Certainly nothing worth arguing on the internet about !

 

Well, I for one eat and breathe everything F1.....vintage, current....whatever. I have books, models, shirts, posters--it's nuts. haha. I think the Ferrari identity would fade over time without the Scuderia.

 

Yes, the brand would carry on but it is ALL about the racing with Ferrari. Ferrari was always racing first and used road cars to support the racing. Enzo only made road cars to support the racing. That is what makes the brand different and special. As nostalgic and teary eyed people get about the road cars, it's all about keeping the racing going. Competition makes this breed special. Who gives a F*** about what kind of road car they are building today, just keep selling them to keep the racing going and the company will always be true to itself. F1 FOREVER!

 

shareholders care about MONEY......

don't confuse something you love with MAKING MONEY

snapple, boston chicken, krispy kreme, ducati, etc etc etc

 

As a Ferrari enthusiast since the late 1950s, I find this mildly depressing.

Of course the world has changed during the (almost) 7 decades that I've been on it. But to hear that there are so many Ferrari owners that appear to have little knowledge of, or interest in, the past and present racing history of the marque makes me wonder about the change in Ferrari's future.

I don't think anyone can dispute the fact that racing was the most important thing in Enzo's life, except for women, perhaps He was, after all, the founder. And that hasn't changed.

Not meant as an attack or anything like that. Just had to get it off my chest.

 

Maybe dropping out of racing when Enzo was alive would have had an impact. But not now. Ferrari is a "look at me " car and brand. It's racing based history was lost a long time ago. I agree with super Dave.

Paul..you need to calm down a bit.

 

Ah, another non owner 'expert' in marketing and buying habits of Ferrari owners.

Having this discussion is like talking about sex....... with a virgin. No basis for anything.

 

Better get used to this. I'm just imagining a Ferrari stock holders meeting full of owners and non owners owning a small piece of Ferrari. Stockholders making decisions based mostly on making the stock more valuable.

 

As an owner of 1 share of RACE, I pledge to do all I can to keep Ferrari in racing because that helps the brand.

I don't consider myself target customer for any of the new Ferrari for the last 10 years so the brand marketing with respect to sales of the new car is moot.