430 Only Manual Scuderia

this is the point.
it did not come from the factory with a gated shifter for a reason.

i love my manual shift cars, and have tracked them, and others plenty.
i have also tracked cars with an F1 box, and if your objective is lap time, then like for like, there is no comparison.

this thread is not about F1 boxes vs standards.
this thread is about whether this post production transformation of the scud is worthwhile and/or desirable. and everybody will have a different opinion.
the staunch defenders of this project are most likely just arguing for the sake of arguing, since they wont buy this car, and they wont build another.

 

so detractors - is your opinion based on actually driving a manual scud? clearly not..... hold judgement until you get the opportunity..... I think his vid invites interested parties to test drive...... until you have the seat time (hold judgement).... unless your opinion is based on some other issue.....

as an auto enthusiast I love things that break from the norm.... something built that was not avail from the factory (no matter how much $$ you had) . something that did not exist before....
and this ticks the boxes for me.

never seen so much vitriol for a modified car..... this tops the hateraid I got from the bimmer crowd when I started my lsx swap in an old m3....... people went crazy..... funny thing people who were friendly and nice before...... changed..... so strange to me.

anyway, I will have a bag of popcorn out to watch this new marketing avenue play out...... and watch this thread roll on like a raging river. have a good guys.

 

I have no hate toward the project. To me, it just makes no sense. Removing the hardware that makes the SCUD a SCUD, just isn't appealing to me

 

I think everyone including aliens from the planet Zog know Dave's opinion on this more that is strictly necessary for one persons voice, even if he does the best Ferrari switches on the planet earth. We get it Dave you hate hate hate it but not everyone does. I love love love it

It is interesting though that those that don't like it somehow absolutely find it totally abhorrent and an abomination to them. I guess the idea of a modified special edition gets them hot under the collar. Perhaps went to too many concours events

The is too much emphasis that this is a Scuderia, after all the conversation is reversible, its not that we lost one from the world. In fact id say it's become even more special. The guy in that video actually does a good job of the way I feel every time I drive my terrible gated Frankenstein 360...

 

Totally agree Ross, put up or shut up. The car went up for auction and the guy that tried to sell the car ended up as the high bigger and bought the car! No buyers! The only issue I have with this Scud is the fact that it is not worth more, possibly even less than a non-modified Scud. The whole manual vs F1 gearbox debate is just noise and not relevant to this car.

 

Just read an interesting article from Harry Metcalfe in a recent issue of evo magazine (issue 257). Harry was the editor of the magazine in 2007 and thought that the scud should have won that year's evo Car of the Year ("eCoty"). He said about the scud:

"We had our strongest pre-event favourite so far, but the fabulous Ferrari 430 Scuderia, somehow, finished second to a rear-engined freak of German engineering, more commonly known as the Porsche 997 GT3 RS. . .

. . . This lightweight programme resulted in a substantial 85kg saving over a standard F430, which combined with a V8 now producing 503bhp (a 20bhp increase) dropped the 0-60mph time by 0.5sec to a fleeting 3.5sec -- the same time evo recorded for an Enzo. The Scud's turn of speed was partly down to its instantaneous gearshifts, which still rank as the best I have ever encountered from an automated manual. . .

. . . it was obvious it was going to win eCoty even before the sun had dipped below the horizon on the first day. We could pack up now and save the budget. Sadly, it was not to be. "
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That's pretty high praise from a guy who has just about driven everything on the planet.

 

Links to the original discussion? Curious to read...

 

I am struggling to see the direct correlation between admiring, desiring and wanting a car and actually having funds to buy it. I'm sure many millions of people would love to own this Scuderia, they just don't have the resources to do it. Doesn't mean that should invalidate their opinion on the car. Many desire the La Ferrari but cannot ever have the possibility to own one but they certainly have opinions on them.

No advertising and then straight into an auction literally the day it was completed isn't exactly conducive with a sale on something as specialist as this clearly is. Has to go to the right buyer.

Over in Europe I've seen driven LHD scuds as low as £100k

 

Nothing wrong w a strong internet benchracing debate! It’s free to type, and the hype is good exposure.

Hoping I get a ride in her!


— discrediting fans due to finances is a little tacky imho. But all’s fair on the web.


Best of luck to the builder(s) and future owner out there.

Track content will be epic.!!

 

I don't really see anyone in both threads talking up the price of this Scud. If anything, most have doubts, including myself, and rightfully so. There simply just isn't enough information presented about this car presented to judge it. Auction houses require bidders to perform their own due diligence. You can't do enough do diligence just by looking at it. You would have to drive it. Or someone reputable would have to drive it and vouch for it. The car was presented pre-maturely imho. I also have doubts about the shop performing the work and their level of expertise.

I also don't have much interest in discussing the value of the car. I'm a car guy and my interest is in the car itself, not the $$ it will bring or not bring. I am excited to witness a manual Scud in action and the smiles it brings to the driver. It was a good idea to bring in a reviewer who owns an F1 430. I sensed nothing but awesomeness in that entire video. Put a price on that!

I have more a problem with the Scud being stripeless with a funky interior combination than being converted to manual, but that's just me.

 

Here’s another video:



Few things I noticed:

1. No LED shift light activation on the steering wheel.

2. We don’t know if the tach displays the gear you are in.

3. They did a funny job on the steering wheel column patching up the opening for paddles. They should have ordered new ones (whatever comes on the manual f430) or sent it to Dave to get refinished.

 

Epic video—-/. Tiff or c Harris or stig or (insert driver name)... a to b track test.

This car is worthy of a Matt Farra review. Just be prepared for his honest opinion.. either way.

 

I was thinking the same thing. Matt Farah would be great a candidate for exposure. He thoroughly reviewed a manual F430 and it would interesting to see his comparison.

Chris Harris on track would be EPIC. He has come to CA to review Singer cars, so it is certainly possible. Chris Harris... if you are reading this, DO IT.

 

I think Dan did a great job conveying the emotion of driving a gated 430 Scud, kudos to Dan. As to the car, I love what they did, something different that is reversible, made it their own. I am looking for a 430 gated to convert to a Scud lookalike, though this method in the end might be better. Does it ADD value if you decide to sell? No, probably a ding in the F world, but still a cool car none the less.

 

I cannot find much technical information between the Superfast tansmission in the F430 and the Superfast2 in the Scuderia other than the Superfast2 being a software update and not a mechanical update.

“Its semi-automatic transmission featured improved ‘Superfast’ software (known as ‘Superfast2’), allowing the gears to be disengaged and engaged at the same time as the clutch was opened and closed – the result was that the Scuderia benefitted from a reduced gear-change time of as low as 60 milliseconds.”

Can someone confirm if Superfast (F430) and Superfast2 (Scuderia) have the same or different gear ratios?

Scuderia Owner’s Manual shows:

1 = 3.29
2 = 2.16
3 = 1.56
4 = 1.22
5 = 0.97
6 = 0.78

Information online from a few sources show different numbers, but same numbers as F430.

 

If this article is accurate, then the 430 Scuderia transmission does indeed have different gear ratios than the F430. Owner’s manual would confirm it.

I am pointing this out because if the Superfast2 (Scuderia) transmission was simply a software upgrade to the Superfast (F430) transmission, then converting it to manual 3 pedal shifting would imply the transmissions are identical. No software benefit. Art should know this.

If the Scud transmission has different gearing, then it is actually unique to the Scud. This would be a key selling point for this 3 pedal conversion.

I’ve driven the F430 and my Scud definitely picks up quicker, but it could be a fault of the 4-1 header setup on the F430.... or weight...or engine power.
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I’ll save you some time and $$. This is the car you want .

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2007-ferrari-f430-2/

 

If Ferrari had made a manual 16M I would be selling the family to buy one - or perhaps either my F512M or gated 430 Spider, anyway.

If a reputable shop here in the UK converted a 16M, I would be interested enough to take a look, if the price was right I'd seriously consider it. But that's on the principle that conversions actually devalue cars these days, so it would need to be cheaper than a 16M. And done well. Same with a Scud.

Dave is also right that the price of manuals is tied up in scarcity, manual standard 911s don't carry any price premium, nor does a manual 456 where as many were made as autos. That doesn't stop some of us individually preferring them, regardless of price, though, just as it doesn't stop some people preferring F1s.

Most of us aren't extremists. The Scuderia is in my top 10 of all the cars I have driven, as are a few other paddleshift cars, as are a few gated cars. I think that's quite a common perspective. Lots of people here own and love both.

 

I’ve put 7K miles on my Scud and my ONLY gripe with the car is how it feels driving around town. It is not a smooth car by any means and that is due to the F1 and Superfast2 transmission. When you are slowing down or coming to a stop, the car downshifts through the gears and has a kick at every step. It’s actually annoying. DCT’s are much smoother. I’ve also tried going into neutral when I am coming to a stop, but the system is rather glitchy. It doesn’t get back into gear fast enough to be a proper driving solution. If you don’t have extensive experience with a Scud, you most likely won’t know what I am talking about and you won’t see the added benefits of having a 3 pedal version. A 3 pedal manual will make it a pleasure of driving this car around town 10 fold in addition to other benefits one sees in a manual driving experience. The car will be smooth when you want it to be and an event when you need it to be.

Ferrari definitely should have offered a manual option.

 

That's part of the issue I have with a project like this, if you are going to do it, do it correctly. No, I don't mean send it to us. New steering covers are available (i just ordered some ) so it's foolish to try and patch the F1 covers. It's not big money to purchase the proper covers.

 

Manual 355’s and 360’s seem to fetch a bit higher than their F1 counterparts but they are not rare (production wise) in both cases. Manual 355’s seem to be double the price of F1 355’s and manual 360 prices seem to be rising in Australia. Perhaps rarer in the market as buyers gobble up the manuals, but production numbers don’t indicate scarcity.

 

That's not the case, Ken. I posted in the 355 section, within the last year several F1's have exceeded high sales for gated cars

 

.... in Australia is what I meant . Haven’t been up to date with U.S market to be honest.

Were those high prices due to the F1 or just simply better sorted 355’s?

 

Sorry, I didn't realize you meant AUS.

Well, just like high value gated cars, they were low mile examples. Some recognize the 355 F1 is a ground breaking technology and that those cars will be very valuable in the not too distant future