open letter to rob and moderators

Someone should create a wikipedia entry for asianbond. That way, when I start calling people that term, they can refer someplace for a definition.

Sunny

 

this community exists because of Robs hard work and all of us crazy Ferrari fans. owner or not, P&R is a "off topic" area. i applaud the pay to play , and wish more of the board were this way. support the site, or dont, but dont cry about not bing able to post. Silver is $15 l. if you want your opinion to matter and be heard, join the community.

i could care less what most of the "unsubscribed" folks have to say, unless its in the Tech area.

those that provide value to the community either subscibe to support the site and become "one of the gang" or are allowed to become consultants because of thier contributuons or satus in the Ferrari community. bw glad there is even an "OFF TOPIC" or "P&R" area. i started the "Bikini" thread, and you dont see folks fighting in there !

 

Hats off to Rob
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I can't believe that this sort of petty sentiment exists here!

Firstly, Abe Lincoln was probably the last "common man" President. The rest of them were born with silver spoons and have Ivy League ...or Oxford [like YOUR illustrious ****** Arkansas Hillbilly former draft-dodging Commander in Chief!].

Secondly, keep this point "seared" [J.F. Kerry ] into your mind that F-Chat is Rob's personal business and he can make whatever decision he wants, or needs to.

'nuff said!

 

ELITIST
http://quizilla.com/users/thebecca/quizzes/What%20Kind%20of%20Elitist%20Are%20You%3F/
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i still think the entire site should be free.
why do we have to pay if the site has sponsers?

 

Sponsors likely don't cover the complete costs.

 

You mean the intarweb isn't free?

I think some miss the idea of "try it out for free, contribute if you find some value" and go right to "gimme gimme gimme". As I've suggested before, some non-subscribed members here should price out the costs involved in running a site such as this.

C.

 

Sunny-you have had a hard-on for me for quite a while now, everytime I post something you take time out of your busy day to dissect it line per line, now I know what it feels like to have a fan club.

Enough with this bogus excuse that P&R was moved for a business reason. Because you're basically saying that all of fchat is free except for P&R, and if you wish to participate in P&R there is an entry fee. This amounts to censorship that discriminates against non-paying members whose voice cannot be heard. Even if you follow that business reason rationale then all of Fchat should be on a fee paying basis. Basically it was an arbitratly decision that had no reasonable justification to explain why P&R should be any different from other sections.

The better solution was to eliminate it all together which would remove the elitest overhang.

It does not cost marginally extra to manage an additional section and sponsers are more interested in eyeballs, given P&R was only a small percentage of overall posts FChat is still very much a carsite. Surely, Rob is not counting on P&R subscriptions to support his operation. The other option would had to allow for all to see P&R but only subscribers can post.

Enough with the posts about stumbling onto P&R, you know it's controversial, so don't click on it.

Sunny- your wish has come true, I will not partake in the P&R section any further because I do not believe in needing to pay to voice my opinions, especially on the a public internet board, so you and your bush cronies can back slap each other about how great bush is doing and how we must "stay the course" toward uncontrolled and unaccountable government.

[Edited for political content.--Wrong forum.]

Bottom line, this is Rob's site and he can do with it as he pleases, I have no issues with that.

 

This is a Ferrari forum. Politics is secondary to the main topic of Ferraris. Having P&R, in the view of the operators of this website, interfered with the main topic of Ferraris. If you don't like it, find a politics forum (in your case, I recommend DU), suscribe, or deal with it.

Second, I'm sure there are quite a few people that have suscribed that thought the management of this crisis was atrocious. Don't start playing us against them games, it's not the truth. Doing so only shows exactly why P&R had to be restricted.

I'm not even going to respond to the Bush comment (and believe me, I'm not a Bush supported), but it's silly.

Frankly, I wouldn't mind if this site went to suscriber only (obviously, I would suscribe if there was a greater incentive than there is currently). The one forum I visit that does that is fantastic, mainly because there is some sort of barrier to entry.

 

Chris,
This is NOT a public internet forum. You can view it in public forum, but you want to join the community, you have to join and agree to the rules set out.

Is the P &R forums really that concern to you? This is Ferrari site, not a P&R site. Plenty of other places that have that.

 

It has nothing to do with money per se, just the principle of the matter. If Rob had asked for donations or entry fee to view all of fchat then I have no issues with that and would surely pay.

P&R was dominated by real trolls who like to accuse others of being a troll. These tend to be Bush supporters (majority) and have no hesitation in making personal attacks toward others.

The anti-Bush chatters(a minority because there are many others afriad to voice their opinions for fear of being attacked) tend to lay out their thoughts and gripes about the administration and usually are descended upon by the pro-bush trolls like a wolf pack. You will find that pro-bush camp never discuss the issues, they just attack the speaker.

If you do a search, I am very confidant you will rarely find a anti-bush chatter make any initial personal attacks toward others. I've been called a communist, anti-american, moron..etc

For a clear example, Sunny added an assinie remark toward me regarding wikipedia.


Again, Rob can do as he please with the site, it's fine with me.

 

You bring politics into a thread that nothing to do with politics directly. This has nothing to do with Bush, Clinton or whatever the heck is going on, this has to do with making the forums a scence that isn't a joke. I love the move, because it makes people here who are Ferrari or car fans first.

 

Btw, the tyical trolls are not the unsubscribed or newbie chatters, they are the veteran over 3000post individuals like marranelloman, matteo, sunny, and etc., who love to post juvenile pictures with titles like "owned" and roam all day finding people with differing views to attack.

Art is not a troll, he is not the one making personal attacks.

So do you really think making it subscriber only will remove the trolls? What internet forum does not have trolls or uncivilized individuals?

Napolis has been attacked from every direction for 0846, just because it is not P&R does not mean trolls do not roam elsewhere.

The nastiness in P&R comes from the veteran trolls, nothing else.

Rob- charge an entry for everyone, doubt it'll make a better site but it will certianly increase your revenues.

 

I have been a member of this forum (both Ferrari and P&R) since it started. I was one of the first 100 members. I've been on the P&R forum for years and have been a proponent of the forum for a long time.

I've always considered Rob a great guy and great asset to the Ferrari community in general, though we have had disagreements about P&R and some other issues with the site. In the end it's Rob's site and business so he can do what he feels best.

However, some of you are contradicting yourselves. If we all pay a fee because we find value in something, especially Ferrari related on a Ferrari website than consider the following:

1) This is primarily a website about Ferraris
2) The highest value areas of this site should therefore be priced accordingly
3) The lowest value areas should be free

Therefore I would think any educated person who comes to this site would value the General Ferrari forum or a specific Ferrari forum (such as the model breakdowns) as very high value sites and pay accordingly. In contrast one wouldn't pay much or anything for a BIKINI thread since you can find a zillion sites on babes in bikinis (or ones with nothing on). You also wouldn't find much value or pay for a political forum on a Ferrari board.

Therefore it makes absolutely no sense to argue that it makes any business sense to charge for the P&R section when 90% of the forums members find absolutely no value in it.

This charging a fee to enter the P&R forum reeks of utter #$^&(*...hit. It's appears to me to be a way of raising revenue and hiding a problem child. If it's that much of a hinderance and has such low value have the balls to kill it, instead of covering it up in the name of good business practice.

I think the P&R section has a great depth of knowledge from a large group of diverse and successful people that can't be found anywhere else on the net. The idea that it's not appropriate because it's not Ferrari related or not politically correct doesn't bode well for the general "Off Topic" section with scantily clad babes and other low value posts.

The internet is about free speech and freedom of ideas. The internet is a means for overcoming the discrimination many face in everyday life. The P&R forum at it's best contains educated thought and discussion on all sides of all issues that allows this country to be the best in the world.

However, it now appears, on this site at least, that those free ideas aren't going to be free anymore.

Regards,

Jon P. Kofod
www.flatoutracing.net

 

I subscribed as soon as I was able to and I paid for 7 years at the discounted rate. If you were subscribed to the Rossa level, you would have read that I had a string of bad luck with two employers this year between Jan and June and it will be longer than my subscription before I will be able to afford a Ferrari. In fact, I don't have the desire to own a Ferrari, look at my profile for my list of wanted cars.

So, why did I subscribe? Think about it. I believe most things have a value and F-chat is included, without P&R. If you're here for more than P&R than I applaud you! You have contributed to other areas of the site. There are a few who do not and thats as good as justification as the business reason is to some people.

Some people can't handle their booze. Some people can't handle traffic. Some people can't handle staying out of a section where they can't play by the rules or contribute positively in.

While I don't agree with most of your political views, that is meaningless to the kind of person you are in real life. I don't agree with lot of what Art has to say but he and I can share meals, take drives, and have civil and intelligent conversation.

With the rest of your argument, you again bring in Bush. LOL! Bush and his policies have nothing to do with the decision to move P&R to the subscribed area. It doesn't seem like you are willing to understand that. If it seems like I have a hard on for you, you could touch me from Hong Kong with yours for Bush. Thats what motivates me and others to respond negatively to your posts.

Exactly!

Sunny

 

Excellent post.

 

Hiding a trouble child (perhaps closing it was too harsh?) makes good business sense if sponsors will be viewing the forums to decide whether or not the site is worth their sponsoship.

 

Wow Jon, maybe you need to take a chill pill. I'm not going to speak for Rob because his wife Jeanie does that anyway. But I'm guessing that moving P&R to the paid section was done as an option instead of just closing it down as has been demanded by more and more members, particularly existing subscribed members

I chatted briefly with Rob at the track the other weekend about this, and he expressed some frustration because he personally didn't have a problem with P&R. Indeed, he had made several posts himself. But he did say that he was getting a lot of heat to just close it.

After that chat, I decided to break my own ban on P&R to make an experimential thread to test for signs of intelligent life. Overall, the results were very promising, except for you-know-who.

The proverbial straw, for me anyway, came later when Ericwhateverhisname posted that not enough people had died in New Orleans to justify international aid. Maybe because I went through this last year with Ivan. Maybe because this whole thing is close to home. Maybe for other reasons, but I lost it. If this type of crap is acceptable in this community, then I want out. There has to be standards of decency for a community to be viable. Or, at least, that's how I see it.

But getting back to Rob. My guess is that Rob was (and is) okay with P&R as it was. I don't think he did this for the money. I don't know, but my guess is that maybe, maybe, 10 new people have forked over $15. However, Rob was getting a lot of requests from paid subscribers to junk P&R. So I guessing that Rob decided to just put it in "time out" for a while to see if things cool down.

So was this a "get rich quick" scheme on Rob's part? Not hardly. Besides, Rob is already kept so what he do with even mo money?

I think that this is just growing pains. However, I am glad to see you posting again. Don't be a stranger.

Dale

 

its a conspiracy by the Bush administation to take over FC

 

Rob is just straightening things up here to get ready for his new big sponsor,
Halliburton Oil

 

I disagree.

The reason why P&R was moved to the subscribed forums was not a power play for more money, but the software simply doesn't allow the ability to exclude certain individuals who break the rules or disrupt what is otherwise, thought provoking conversation. The extra dues are a side effect. The real problem is that some people have little self control when debating hot issues.

Jon, what would YOU do within the limitations of the software? Ban people or make the forum less accessible to disruptive influences?

Dale's last reply here was an excellent post!

Sunny