P Zeroes, what gives?

Its probably just pirelli being italian for ferrari nothing more.

 

I haven't seen a good post about P-Zeros in a long time. I have them on my car. I am coming up on tires soon and planned on giving the P-Zeros a good long look providing they still make the sizes I need for a Modena. People rave about their new tires but new rubber from any of the recognized manufacturers is going to feel good and way better than what you just removed IMO. In the back of my mind I was hoping that the lack of recent positive reviews would bring the price down! LOL

PS. I also go out of my way to find Shell gas even though I doubt there is any difference these days.

 

Mmmmm P-Zero's

Image Unavailable, Please Login

Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

I've had them on my Ferrari and they are on my S63. They seem to wear out faster than any other tire available.

 

I work in the tire industry and have several co-worker friends in the R&D department. The below is my opinion and anecdotal based on casual conversations with them.

OEM-equipment tires are almost always compromised in some fashion, Pirelli is no exception. OEMs want a grippy tire that gives 40k miles of wear, are quiet, work well in all weather, that manufacturers can purchase in huge quantities for cheap. Unfortunately, most of these attributes are exclusive of each other, and you end up with an OEM tire that doesn't excel at anything.

Speaking from personal experience, my '14 Mustang GT came equipped from Ford with a Pirelli P-Zero Nero tire in 245/45/19. To my ears, they were noisy, lacked grip (you could break them loose in 3rd with a hard upshift), and rode firmly. However, they were pretty good in the rain, and seemed to wear slowly.

I replaced them with a set of Continental ExtremeContact Sports in a staggered 255/40 & 285/35 19" setup, and the difference was night and day. The Contis were quieter and had a smooth ride, not to mention loads more grip. However, in less than 7k miles, I've gone through almost 4/32" of rubber on the rears, and they do not do much to resist hydroplaning.

With OEM equipment, you rob Peter to pay Paul, and nobody really says, "wow, those are amazing tires" on any car with all-season rubber. Performance vehicles that come equipped with summer-only rubber are an exception, as these tires are usually developed with the tire manufacturers to extract the most performance out of a car.

 

You may be correct. I always felt that Ferrari did enough testing with P-Zeros to be able to recommend a different tire pressure between the front and the rears. I don't think that Pirelli was able to determine that when the car was being developed. Also noteworthy are the Michelin PS pressures that are the opposite! (from the Modena Owners Manual for 2003)

Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

That is really interesting!

 

And I'd imagine this has always been the case with most vendor supplied components in automotive manufacturing industry, regardless of vehicle brand or model.

 

I just switched to Michelin MPS4S on my Porsche. I thought the P-Zeroes it came with were fine but the Michelins turned a faster track time at Laguna. I also have Michelin on my E63S, OEM Bridgestones on my Cal T.

Michelins are:
- grippier
- quieter
- have a higher treadwear rating
- on the N-spec tires they added a curb shoulder to the sidewall. Not sure it would really help, but I appreciate the thought.

The P-Zeroes have grip but are noisier and, in my experience, need to be at a higher temp to perform optimally.

 

I have P-zeros on my Spider and like them. On the 456 I have Conti Extreme Contact Sports (the only tire I can find for it) and like them too. I drive nowhere near the edge of the envelope and do not track my car so YMMV.

 

I have a new set of Pirellis on my 599, I think the Michelins were better.

 

I put P Zeros on my 456M and they were sublime. An incredible improvement over the Nittos I had previously. Now I'm putting Michelins on my 360, so I'll let you know when I pick up the car and scrub them in.

 

There are many types of P Zeros. They all seem to be lumped under the same banner. I had P zero Rossos on my Maserati, superb when hot, but not too great in the cold. (I live in Scotland!) Asimmetricos on the 348 I really like, but haven't really driven it hard in the cold.

 

The local service guys swear by Michelin, despite the cars being sold with Pirellis. I changed my 355 and Audi and have been happy with the Michelins.

I have just posted this in the Other Italian section, but my new Alfa has P Zero Corsas and they are very skittish and break lose easily. Even when warmed up they are slippy and Race mode can get your butt clenched. Not very confidence inspiring.

 

To follow up on that, I remember reading decades ago that Tom McCahill (as in Mail for McCahill in Mechanix Illustrated) wrote that the tire manufacturers and the car manufacturers were always at odds about tire pressures. The tire guys wanted the recommended pressures to be on the high side so to proclaim longer tread life, while the car guys wanted the pressures to be lower so that the ride was smoother.

And Darius, I would not mix tire brands on the same vehicle.

 

As someone who has been taking cars apart for a really long time, I have found that there is no one perfect tire. When I have a heavier GT car ( that comes equipped with run flats), I always remove wheel and tires, go with a smaller diameter lightweight wheel and use Bridgestone Potenza SP04's really strong sidewall and they perform very well. When I switched AWD cars to RWD (Gallardo, 911TT), I must have tried a half dozen wheel and tire combinations to find the right balance for the car. These days I tend to drive less like a maniac and have found ultra high performance all seasons perform at about the same level (for normal use) as a high performance summer tire did a decade ago. With the added bonus that they don't turn into ice skates when it is 35 degrees out (which in hard braking situations may just save your life). I find peoples remarks about tires to in many ways mimic their remarks about a car, tires are the most important part of your cars handling, and the type of tire, temp (both of the outside and the tire), and the pressure make a big difference. I have never found the tire pressures the manufacturers give to be right for me, they tend to give you the most comfort and sometimes a floaty feeling. Lets not forget the weight of the wheels (and their size), which will also impact the way the car feels and drives. I could go on and on, and I must admit when I see some putting much larger wheels and tires on certain car and putting up pictures I want to have them write "I will not ruin a cars balance and handling 1000 times on a blackboard (but that is another discussion) I think P zero's are good tires, the are noisy and if the car sits a while tend to take a bit longer to warm up and get rounded again. Right now all my cars have Bridgestone, Michelin, or Nokian tires, some summer some winter,and some all seasons.

 

Hmmm...... Not sure what the C63 is like chassis-wise, but on the BMW's I have owned (especially the E36 328i Sport, and the E46 330ci), and on the Ferrari 348 I used to own, there's no way on earth I'd run with an odd tyre on either axle - The handling would have been all over the place!

In fact, I wouldn't want to run different tyres on the front axle and rear axle (including different models from the same manufacturer!)

My E46 BMW came with different brands front and rear and the car was almost dangerous to drive! - It was like the front and rear ends weren't connected to each other!

Once I put the car on four tyres of the same make and model (I went with a set of Dunlop's in the end), the car was transformed!

Straight away I could feel the front and rear ends working together, and the car went from being totally unpredictable, to being totally predictable. I went from having no confidence in the car at speed at all, to having total confidence, and total faith in the car - Night and day difference.

 

i always want to go bridgestone potenza cuz i like the way they look - and then i read all the posts about the pilot sports even though i know that for 100% of my driving there is no difference.
i think i went bridgestone on my 456 GTMA but cant remember.