Zonda absolutely.
There is a new video (new to me at least) over at racingflix.com of the 03 supercar rally. There are two Zonda's that go by the camera and they sound so damn good. They just sound so "thick and heavy and poweful" if that makes sense, I watch the vid 3 times. On a side note listen to the Gallardo, how in the world does that thing sound louder and more bassy than almost every car there including the Zonda, must be the pipes?
Will someone explain this too me. I have this issue at the house and for the life of me I can understand how this car would not go over 198mph. That has puzzled me from the day a read the article??????
I watched my Martin Brundle supercar DVD again last night. The Koennisegg looks absolutely stunning in black. Far nicer IMO than the Pagani, Zonda or even Porsche GT. I would still have to take the Zonda though if I was paying out my money. Brundle was full of praise for the Zonda and could only criticise a slightly notchy gearshift and a slightly unstable rear end when on a bumpy road under power. He recognised the potential in the CC but said that it just wasnt a sorted car and needed a lot of development.
wow G.Murray got a reply to that?!?! Damn, I read the first letter by Murray but don't recall which issue it was in? I got to read that .
Gordon Murray, to me, seems like a stuck-up *******. Sure the McLaren was a bad-ass car, wait, not was, is a bad-ass car. It shattered records and speeds etc. But that was nearly 10 years ago. **** changes and soon he will see that his little baby wont compare, except in price, to any of the modern 'super-lux' sport cars. Dont get me wrong, I love the F1, and everything about it, but its time has come and gone. It inspired, it challened and it will live on.
Has anybody seen the Koenigsegg promotional video? The narrator sounds like he's doing a sex hotline commercial (he speaks in a soft, slow voice and draws out the vowels). I think the Pagani will be more of a collector car down the road. I also like the Pagani's front and side profile more. However, I think the rear is too cartoonish, and the dashboard is downright goofy looking. On the other hand, I think the front and rear of the Koenigsegg looks bland and interior is rather spartan. The exterior looks best in dark colors because it makes it more difficult to see how simply the car's shape really is. The new Konenigsegg CCR has improved on this by adding a bit more surface detail in the front and rear.
Considering in addition to the McLaren F1, he also penned the 81 and 83 Championship winning Brahbams and the 1988 McLaren Honda that won 15 out of 16 races, I say he has a bit more reason to be stuck up. Why is he stuck up anyway? Because he says what is on his mind.
From my understanding the F1 is a miraculous success for the automtive world. Also from my understanding the Koneisegg didn't even move a wheel to take the crown from the F1 as the fastest production car on the planet. Where is the evidence of the koeniesegg doing the 240.1mph+/241.0,mph+ speeds? I sure as hell haven't seen any! Whereas I saw loads with the Mclaren F1 and the Record was witnessed independantly when the Mac went for the record where is the evidence?!?!? There simply isn't any, and if there is and Christian has some and comes across this thread then share it with the rest of us. If I was G.Murray I would respond in the same manner towards Christian Koenigsegg/Guiness World Records...about the bull**** that comes out of that hut in Sweden.
Klint & Senna1994, Im not saying G.Murray isnt a racing genius, him and his little baby kicked some major ass. And where is the evidence? I want to see it like ya'll. But the time has come for a new leader.
Actually I think Gordan Murray is way too full of himself. I have the 2000 Autosport book and the biggest disappointment in this book is his review of racing car designs over time/history. He puts down every single car and raves about how fncken clever he was with his cars. The thing that he forgot is that with hindsight it is very easy to laugh at earlier designs ... and this shows immaturity that is amazing! Also his sketches are way amaturish ... I seriously could to better (I am (was) a design draughtsman ... BTW). As for the 1988 McLaren that car was a warmed over Barnard design. Barnard (the genius) created the MP4 and until the Peugeot disasters every McLaren was a modified version of the original MP4. Obviously a lot more redesign happens under its skin but Barnard created far more winning cars than Gordan Murray and you do not read of him scoffing and critising everybody elses design like Murray does. Yes the McLaren is a great car, but please remember that it is not that original: - There were many 3 seater cars before the F1 (a Ferrari prototype and a Matra production sportscar (I remember my fathers garage servicing one)). - Nothing clever about a huge 6 litre engined car going fast ... - Harder to design a brilliant car with financial boundaries than a blank cheque spend as much as you like attitude. Thus from a engineering design point of view cars such as the Honda Civic are better designs! - Drivers of the Le Mans cars critised the suspension as it is not a proper inboard design ... strange on a money no object car, but undoubtably Murray has a good reason. - Many rave on about how the pedals have to be fitted to the driver, etc. as some sort of cool, brilliant design. I beg to differ, a proper adjustable pedal system would be far harder to design than a weld it in to suit the owner attitude, and what happens when you sell the car. I believe the Maserati Bora has such a system ... The best thing about the McLaren F1 is its packaging and for once a supercar is small and not a huge barge, and it backed up its performance by winning Le Mans. Great car and I'd own a (Bruce) McLaren orange one, but would love to see Gordan Murray ego shrunk down a peg or 2 ... maybe the new McLaren Mercedes thing will provide that. Pete
- Many rave on about how the pedals have to be fitted to the driver, etc. as some sort of cool, brilliant design. I beg to differ, a proper adjustable pedal system would be far harder to design than a weld it in to suit the owner attitude, and what happens when you sell the car. I believe the Maserati Bora has such a system ... just to let you know when ever a F1 is sold the factory is informed of it, the car shipped there, and the car is compleatly rebuilt, re-painted, and everything to the owners suit... i also think (but not for sure) that the rebuild is so extensive that the engine is considered "new" with no mileage... (anybody confirm??)
Yeah, exactly how is that good design?. This is race car rebuild mentality, not designing something to be adaptable. I can think of many CHEAP and CRAPPY kit cars that would have to go through the same rebuild process to suit a new (different sized) owner and everybody laughs at the lack of design thought that goes into the kits ... and yet the same crap has to happen with the F1 (Note: I am not talking about the re-paint, engine rebuild, etc. I am talking only about the adapting to the new owners driving position). Good design is about designing something to suit all requirements ... well it was when I went to engineering school. Pete
the pagani styling looks like a high school design class experiment gone awry....ugly.....like other have said for this kind of money i would get a combo of real cars or aF50 .....they are making too many carrera gts for it be a collector and the car doesnt have the character of a ferrari...what porsche really does?
out of the zonda and the koenigsegg, i would pick the zonda. But if it was me getting a car i think i would prefer a carrera GT or a F50
Pete, You definately don't know what the hell your speaking about. First off Barnard was gone after 87 to Ferrari, the last car he penned for McLaren was the MP4/2 which was further revised up to the MP4/3 (The last Porsche-Tag Motor). The MP4/4 which was based on the Brahbam BT55 was the car Gordon Murray envisioned that didn't work with the Lay Down BMW Motor. The MP4/4(Honda V6Turbo) was further refined by Steve Nichols at McLaren. The later McLarens also were totally different cars based on the Honda V10, Honda V12, and Ford Cosworth V8. So your saying that the First and only Peugeot MP4/9 was a new design. True Barnard was a design genius as well, but after McLaren and the Ferrari 640 which was further refined in 1990 by Steve Nichols and prior to that by Enrique Scalbroni he didn't do much. He didn't do a great job for Ferrari since he went back from 94-97 until Rory Byrne and Ross Brawn went there from Benetton. Murray was an innovator, anyone remember the FAN Car Alfa Brahbam, sliding skirts BT49 circa 1981. A good reference before you discuss F1 design is a book about the McLaren MP4/4 that gives a detailed design anaylsis called the Greatest Turbo Car ever. However I don't think it is any longer in print. But you must put down the Crack Pipe before making a statement that any McLaren after the 87 car had anything to do with Barnard.
I agree that Mr. Murray's criticisms are sometimes unfounded, and arrogance is unseemly in even the most accomplished individual. However, some of your observations about the McLaren F1 are "off-base" A 3 seater was indeed not revolutionary, but I believe the staggered arrangement and overall packaging was new. A 6 litre engine should make lots of power, yes. But the F1 motor had the highest specific power output when it came out. That is clever (although credit mainly goes to Rosche and his team at BMW). Being able to use all the power also requires precision and intelligence in design and perfect execution. That's where the McLaren beat every other car. Anyone can drive it very fast, with confidence. Not quite. You haven't weighted the comparison for production numbers...with only 100 cars to spread the costs over, McLaren made the world's best car--for about $150 million. With Honda's production numbers, to be comparable, the Civic ought to have better performance and cost $1-$10. McLaren is ahead in this regard. If you are talking about driving satisfaction (key consideration for buyers of sports cars), then many would say the McLaren delivers immeasurably greater value. Finally, which Honda can you sell for a several hundred thousand dollar gain? It works out to be a pretty good investment, both as a percentage and in real money terms. McLaren is way ahead on all of these fronts. While they didn't want to be unduly constrained by costs, noone gave them a blank check. They set out to build the best car with the best materials and technology--for this they created a development program and budgeted it and TAG McLaren financed it. You can be sure they tracked the money spent on this car. A Honda is superior in terms of reliability and accessiblity to the middle-class and cost of entry into ownership and parts availiability and service locations in just about every locality. However, the two cars are aimed at different demographics and most of these are not considerations for the typical McLaren buyer. You didn't weight your statements for performance, or consider what the company invested in its development and what they were able to come up with. McLaren is ahead in all of those. Drivers at Le Mans criticize every car they drive. That's their job. The McLaren F1 was not designed as a racecar. It was a hugely compromised design for racing. So criticising it shows a complete lack of understanding about the car. The fact that it still won the race its first time out shows how invalid that criticism really was. Ignoring the fact that this was an application for which the product had not been originally designed, as bad as the car might have been, it was defintely good enough. While it's a nifty fact, I don't think too many people rave about the adjustable pedals. It's simply a feature of the car, and not a big deal. The refitting service for new owners is also not something to boast about. Nice to know that they do it, but when buyers hear about the prices they charge, it's an option they often choose to forego. The best thing about the McLaren is the engineering in it. Packaging is a part of that, but only a part. From the heat and air management to the suspension to the engine to the linkages to the materials to the myriad other components, no other car has come close. Would love to see GM taken down a peg or two as well. I think it has happened with the SLR. To be fair, there have been constant rumours that he did not see eye to eye with the Germans, and has distanced himself from the project for some time now.
I've heard of these cars & have no interest in them at all. Ferrari, Lamborghini, or McLaren for me only please! Thanx!
Is this the car currently for sale in UK? See link: http://www.dkeng.co.uk/frames.php £240,000. Is it Federalized or will you be floating that bill? If I were looking to purchase outside the U.S. I'd be dealing with an importer experienced in this particular car. IMHO. Ever see Rain Man? Nothing more traumatic than seeing your Zonda locked away by customs and given "X" amount of time to comply with DOT regulations or be forced to ship it back or worse yet shredded right before your eyes. Out.
Get the Zonda. I have seen the exact Koeinigsegg you are talking about (at Auto Salon Singen...it is a bluish green with white interior) well....i was liking the photos preformance but when i went to see it in person i wasn't impressed, the doors are kinda awkward to open and get out of, also i don't think the craftsmanship even comes close to rivaling a Zonda...plus it is V8 of unkown make not a Mercedes V-12 i think they supercharge the engine. I loved the Zonda when i saw it...i was walking around and i spot a green XJ220 sweet....then i see a beautiful unknown car...it is the Zonda C12S it was very cool. So later i went to Autodrome Cannes (in france) and ordered a Blue Zonda C12-s 7.3 ...i got it with Roadster wheels that are annodized blue in the center and flange, also the headlights cover is verrry dark blue (not black) with carbon accents. The interior is cream and the dash is carbonfiber with anodized blue aluminium and chrome through out... I have never had an exotic so i cannot wait !
