Painting the DIno

The answer is- yes, you can. HOWEVER there are conditions and of course risks involved.

here is a fairly specific list of conditions to be met, no matter who paints a car or where:

1. When spraying a car, the paint area must be kept very, very clean. Even "low pressure" spray involves stirring up air and dust with it. When sanding/blocking etc. of course it isn't a factor. but eventually the area must be very clean for painting. If you cannot provide a clean area- indoors- don't even think about it. This means surrounding the paint area with material all around & above to keep dust & whatever else away from the painted surface.

2. The temperature and light must be controlled. No freezing or uneven temperatures in the painting area, no direct sunlight. Paint likes it to be around 70 degrees, give or take.

3. Limit the access to yourself or whoever is doing the painting. No visitors, especially ones that might touch the working surfaces. People's skin has oil, which paint doesn't like- at all. No children, of course. If they want to see something take photos.

4. Proper equipment is necessary. A decent compressor, controlled air pressure/volume of air, in-line moisture traps and dryers, filters etc. clean, new hoses to the gun from the compressor and filters,etc. NEVER a hose used for air tools, which will (or should have had) oil in the lines to lubricate the air tools, but never a paint gun, of course. If you use air tools for sanding, etc, (who doesn't?) have completely separate lines, hopefully ones with a different color to not make a mistake.

5. The best sort of sprayers are the HVLP type- high volume low pressure, with feed bottles above the gun. It takes practice to use professional (or any at all, for that matter) spray equipment correctly, without making mistakes. Paint is very, very expensive- plan on something like $1500 or more- maybe a LOT more- for materials. The color and gloss of paint depends on many things, including gun pressure, temperature, angle of the gun to the surface, air moisture, exact mix of paint (meaning reducer and so on) and how the paint is applied to the surface. If you can get a pro to let you watch him spray a car (correctly, anyway) so much the better. I've sprayed many cars, myself, and frankly it isn't easy and takes quite a lot of practice.

6. The most important factor in achieving good results, though is this: absolutely proper surface preparation, which is at least 90% of the effort required. It takes experience to know when to go back to the original surface- metal, fiberglass, or whatever- and when to leave the substrate pretty much alone. Removing too much will require a great deal of rebuilding the substrate (primer/sealer, filler, a lot of sanding & blocking, more surfacer or filler, more surfacer and primer when metal is reached and so on & on & on. Conversely, not removing enough will doom the final result to failure, meaning START OVER. Finally after LOTS of work the surface to be painted must be absolutely perfect... no irregularities, waves, dips, high spots, nothing. Many pros spray a very light coat of black on the surface to visually check for errors, and of course you need to know how to do this & what to look for. If it isn't ABSOLUTELY perfect you need to do whatever isn't right over, or else you're wasting your time and paint, as the topcoat/colorcoat will hide absolutely nothing, unless you're using a very textured semigloss paint. I assume you won't be using such stuff, except on panels underneath or in the wheel wells, etc.

So there you are, in a longish nutshell. Can it be done? Of course it can. Is it easy to learn, and do? No way in hell!

There's a very, very good reason paint shops take lots of time and lots of money to correctly paint a car...any car, not just an exotic. So the question to you is... what results do you expect to see, and what are you willing to do or put up with to get there? Learn the tricks of the trade, to near perfection, not to mention the time & money it takes to get there? Or maybe go out & earn some more money & let a pro do it, with you being the typical picky owner?

My friend, taking a car apart is NOT 25% of the work. If you don't believe this, please re-read the above again. You get what you pay for... if you're lucky.

Frankly after reading that your neighbor has such experience (I'll assume, anyway) I'm surprised that you'd even consider doing it yourself. Did he really offer to do all the work in his garage or...? Did you ask him how much time & how many cars it took for him (and various judges) to be completely satisfied with his efforts?

Back to the $10K offer to paint the beastie...to be honest if his work is truly of professional, factory type quality I think that $10 K or so is VERY reasonable. He must not pay his help that much, as it takes time- lots of it- to do a proper job. Remember also that living on the Least Coast near salt water, with a metal car that never had real rust protection under the paint, you may well run into other issues after prep work is begun, so be prepared for that possibility. Lots of hidden areas to inspect, drain holes to clear, and so on. Do NOT overlook these items, or at some point you'll be sorry. Also remember that you'll have to remove the rubber, glass, seals and so on, which is likewise expensive to do the job right. Are all the seals and rubber bits available as replacements? Make sure before taking everything apart. In fact have everything in your hot little hands before you begin. Seeing something in a catalog isn't the same as actually having it. And when you get stuff, compare it to the original to make sure it's the right stuff.

Considering the prices of Dinos these days- BTW which one do you have?- to me saving a few bucks in the light of no painting experience all seems like penny-wise, pound foolish, but maybe I'm way off base here.

So that's about all I can offer in the way of advice... so take your time, think about it carefully, and choose wisely.

Cheers,
Rich

 

^^^^ All of this and more. I never painted a car myself. Once I thought about it but found out how time (and skill) is involved. Assume what a pro does it will take you 3x longer. Remember, the paint finish is the first and last thing people (and you) see. It's gotta be right. Your Car combo sounds very unique, one I have never heard or seen. Can't wait to see final photos. good luck with either of your approaches.

 

Before you start figure out how to paint around the rear window. Can you get a gun and good coverage underneath the top overhang? Move a gun around that area and see what you think. I'll tell you that the guy who painted my GT4 had trouble and I can see why. I think I could only do it with the engine removed. In fact, when you get a quote ask them specifically how they will paint that.

 

The painting is the easy part as the prep work is the key to a successful paint job. If you have a good straight body and no rust then prep should not be to bad but as we all know these bodies were not that great. Most $10K and up paint jobs are all in the labor. If you could do the job and get a great finish prep even Maco could give it a good spray. Years ago I painted my E-Type in my garage. It came out good but not great and was one of those 5 foot paint jobs. So if you strip/mask and fill/sand you could find a guy that paints and let him spray it. It's all in what you are looking for. I was quoted once from a good local shop $5K to respray my 308 provided I stripped the trim and bumpers. They would fill/sand and spray for that price. I saw a 911 that they did and it was great. So pick your poison.

 

Thomas,

I'm in Virginia, like you, but I'm up in the Shenandoah Valley. However, there is a good option for you here in Waynesboro, Virginia. I have a friend who owns a shop which does fantastic restoration work, including paint and bodywork. Here's a thread I posted while they were doing their first Ferrari.

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/vintage-thru-365-gtc4-sponsored-vintage-driving-machines/396683-restoration-1952-ferrari-212-inter-0257-eu.html

I can give you contact information if you want.

But any of this is expensive, no matter who does it, just for materials alone. I can tell you from my own experience in a recent restoration of a 1962 Karmann Ghia convertible, I spent over $2,000 just in paint and materials. That wasn't a marked up cost, but actual.

Jeff

 

Spot on, great advice.

I paint all my sculptures and even at 1/4 scale it is very difficult and tedious.

 

He brings up an excellent point. The problem with leaving stuff on the bodywork that covers part of it or an edge, such as a window, its rubber or whatever is this: Beyond making it difficult to access surfaces in tight areas compounded by having stuff overlaying the paint where you least want anything except the painted surface, if you do not strip the body surfaces completely, you're working up to a stopping point (like a rubber seal), and hoping that the new paint and whatever prep work is underneath it (primer/sealer, surfacer, whatever) will be stable, neither bubbling, peeling, lifting or whatever. If you're REALLY unlucky, there might be a bubble or even rust under that very stopping point that you won't be able to see, simply because you didn't see the paint surface where it extends below whatever you've left in place. Of course this isn't always the case, but remember that especially where rubber on top of paint- especially rubber glass seals are concerned, it's a very good place for dirt or moisture to collect over time,and so provides conditions for problems to occur in the first place. New prep work and paint will hold, and look good, for a while- but if there are issues below the new work, all bets are off. Is removing glass a pain and risky? Yes it is. It nearly always ruins the seals, and glass breakage is not to be overlooked as a possibility. So where new glass or seals are unavailable, is taking a chance on leaving such stuff in place nearly unavoidable? In most cases, yes of course, unless you have the very, very, very deep pockets to have someone somewhere remanufacture what you need. Right.

So what to do, in such a case? Again, a busy shop used to redoing exotics with very limited availability of such parts will- hopefully- have learned to do the best they can to save what cannot reasonably be replaced, and be very, very careful in working in such areas, especially considering the risks involved in either damaging the stuff to remain in place or else not detecting substrate problems that must be dealt with, whatever it takes. Such issues are of course the bane of paint shops, and always can come back to haunt them, no matter what care is taken. So expect some sort of disclaimer to that effect (we'll do the best we can but since we cannot strip the car completely, leaving some glass & its rubber in place, we cannot be responsible for what's underneath it, but we'll do the very best we can.) Or something like that, if they're wise. Expect to see their best man do such work, taking whatever time it takes to do it right. One slip, and...

Again, I strongly advise you to find a very good shop that is experienced in exotics, check their work and references, and deal fairly with them. Tell them what you realistically expect, and what compromises you can live with- or not. A shop that has happy customers, lots of them, is not trying to cheat you, but is not trying to go out of business trying to get your patronage either. If you expect excellent quality work, expect to pay for it. A bit of a tough message- sorry- but as I see it, the truth.

Cheers,
Rich

 

I think this is going to be a problem. When you buy paint the shop doesn't give discounts for Yugos and charge more for Ferraris. The masking tape will cost the same, sandpaper is the same. The amount of labor will be higher because of the lead and filler curves, etc. But none of tis takes the value of the car into consideration. It costs what it costs no matter the value of the car. Worse than that is that the money virtually vanishes without much in the way of raising the value of the car much.

If you're not doing it for love, don't do it.

 

Wrap it!

3M Car Wrapping - Printing, Carbon Fiber or Coloured Vinyls*- Graphic Solutions : 3M Europe

 

Well, yes, but... any shop doing exotics (and the occasional Yugo, God help them!) will know that the typical exotic owner is liable to be a lot more picky than the average "Y" owner. That's why they bought an expensive car to begin with! So built into the price, usually, is an allowance for more time & materials to do a truly proper job. This would be especially true for owners of fiberglass cars, such as early GTB's. Fiberglass is nowhere near as stable as metal, when a perfect, even, non-wavy surface is expected. I've painted many fiberglass cars and one can only do so much. Get it just right, then set it in the sun for awhile, and back you are again. Oh well. But I digress.

Come to think about it, why complain about the high cost of repainting an exotic when the vast majority of the cost is honest hard work- better to complain about the sky-high prices of spares, compared to the prices of nearly identical bits for other makes? Or even the exact same part, in a different box? Now THAT'S a rip-off!

Cheers,
Rich

 

THIS ^^^^^

My son is the Assistant Manager for the body shop for a new car dealership group. Most of his customers are not picky, same color and shiny, they are good to go (after all they are just going to trade it in after a few years). The collision business, like most others, relies on quick turnover to generate profit. Attention to detail and quality work takes time and requires more money.

 

So... are you saying that vehicle owners in the Rust Belt just keep 'ol Dobbin goin' along however they can, then trade 'er in after a while? Where's the love? And of course quality takes "time and requires more money". Does anyone there EXPECT such quality,and are they willing to cough up?

Fill us in, please. How does this relate to Ferrari owners, more than it might relate to owners of 5 or 10 year old pickups and whatever. Has your son's body shop EVER worked on an exotic or specifically a Ferrari (I assume that such exist in Cincinnati???); if so, are THEY more picky than the average bear there???

 

There's always Maaco .

 

I don't think Sinsinatti has any Maaco shops....too upscale. But Cincinnati does have Jungle Jim's. Last time I drove through the city, the shops were using rollers and brushes.