Patek Philippe - the basics of building a great collection

AP and Mille, and let’s be honest, it’s not all patek watches. When’s the last time a nautilus has skyrocketed in price?

 

Really? Philips offered my friend $1.3 mil for his Dufour. Patek, with only a few exceptions, are worth far less than retail when purchased second hand. My Patek 5227 ($36K retail) is worth a little over $20k (maybe.)

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/price-of-dufour-simplicity
https://www.phillips.com/detail/PHILIPPE-DUFOUR/NY080117/47
http://watchesbysjx.com/2017/10/philippe-dufour-duality-sells-for-us915000.html
https://www.christies.com/LotFinder/lot_details.aspx?intObjectID=6042720
https://www.christies.com/LotFinder/lot_details.aspx?intObjectID=6118558

 

I just smaller market for dudour. Anyways, not to discount either brand as this is a ho by of passion.

I’m just not a fan of dufour as much as I like Patek.

Part of the appeal is to take a product and create demand and excitement without making it mass market. Patek in my eyes has done that.

 

What would one suggest as an entry into the patek market? 5711?

 

Entry or entry level? 5711 is quite expensive for what it is, the 5167 is more entry level. Both sports watches were until recently, considered quite a departure for Patek, so for "entry" you may want to consider a classic like the Calatrava.

 

I guess I should have clarified my ask, i meant entry as in a collection piece not in price. As I remember the nautilus was the entry patek, how submariners are to Rolex or royal oak is to AP. Mostly when you hear about patek are the $$$ they pull for their upper echelon watches.

 

5711 is impossible to get. Long term clients have 12-18 month wait list. Very difficult for someone off the street to get one.

Some of the pakets are impossible to get however, any AD you walk into usually has a display of watches available. If you like any of them in stock, make a deal for them. Use in stock items to start your relationship. Don’t buy stuff you don’t like but if in stock, pull the trigger and get in line for the next one.

 

To be fair--a Patek essentially a completely different animal. Dufour is an absolute master who builds his watches by himself essentially one by one. His production numbers are probably like 25 a year (an estimate but certainly not over 50). His watches are designed, build and finished by him. Patek produces circa 50K watches a year. There are huge teams making those watches. Does not make them bad---but a different animal compared to a Dufour. Within the patek line, there is also a huge difference between a grand complication and a basic watch in terms of what type of watchmaker works on it.

 

With all do repect, there is no problem at all with Dufour resale. There is a massive list to get one that is unfortunately longer than Dufour has time to live.

If you know someone who wants to sell one for what he/she paid from Dufour--I will happily buy the watch +15% finders fee to you.

 

Meh. The watch does nothing for me. To each his own.

 

Unfortunately for me, what the watch "does for you" obviously has nothing to do with resale.

Just was pointing out it is absolutely false that Dufours have bad resale. In fact, out of the goodness of my heart, will give you a raise to 15% finders fee for one of those crappy Dufours from someone that is willing to sell me the watch for what they paid ;-)

 

You could give me double for what’s the watch sales for I could care less. I have zero interest in the watch or the brand. It’s nothing personal we all have our preferences. If you enjoy the watch fantastic. But the stuff that I’ve seen with dugour hasn’t been all that impressive to me. Maybe my knowledge of resale might be limited to my personal experience but again I don’t care. I’m not a fan of the Brand

 

5711 is nice, but only if you can get one at MSRP. For the "premium" I would consider a second hand Patek with more complication. Better yet, it may even to buy one from the era when they had the Geneva seal vs the Patek seal (pre-2009 ish).

In terms of what model, obviously depends what you like, but here are some pretty nice models for the money in my view. My personal favorite all in all is the 5130, the rest in no particular order
1. 5130 Worldtime, I personally think this is the best iteration of this watch and in the perfect case size at just under 40MM and relatively thin with a useful complication for travel--and one the brand is famous for.. This softer version of the calatrava case with the more rounded edges and the crown guards is really nice. Also, with this watch you get the 240 base movement which is a micro rotor and usually saved for more grand complications. The 324 base movement you find in the 5711, 5167 is not per say bad--but it is used in an awful lot of models and is not quite as special in my view. You can get this watch for well below retail in the after market.
2. Patek 3970 perpetual calendar. Relatively expensive in comparison--but you get the same fantastic movement that is in the 5970. Also, this one is realtively small in diameter so may not work for you depending on your preferences.
3. 5396 Calendar. Super classic annual calendar. Something Patek is really famous for. I especially like the dial with the Breguet style numerals. Traditionally these numerals have only been on relatively special Patek watches. There is a really nice grey face version in white gold and a Rose Gold version with a white face. There is a nice baton white gold version with a white face as well.
4. 5960 Chronograph Calendar. This watch is a lot of watch for a pretty good price. This one is not for me because I think it is a bit thick for my preferences and I prefer chronographs with the column wheel setup (the movement that looks like a maze of parts). However, definitely one to consider.
5. 5140 Perpetual Calendar. This watch may be a bit small at just over 37MM, but it is a type of watch Patek is famous for and a grand complication at similar money to a 5711 in the grey market. This watch is the one if you want a super elegant super thin perpetual calendar.

Those are some ideas to consider. Obviously so much comes down to preference.

 

Awesome recommendations, I called around the couple nearest patek dealers in the area and the waitlist is 18-24 months for a 5711, figured it wouldn’t hurt so I put my name of the list. I remember when it was so easy to pick one up too.

 

And what does Defour’s wear?
ALS Datograph!

 

As I recall, the 5146 was introduced specifically as an entry level watch while the 5711 was designed as an entry to the sports watch category. The 5711 has now taken on a new life and become iconic, and it's part of Patek's history but only one

And the Simplicity number 00...

 

Image Unavailable, Please Login Reorganizing my little collection. New winder coming

 

Really a great collection

 

Great point. He wears a Rose Gold/black face model--which has become known as the Dufour Datograph

Lange is making some really fantastic watches and one look at the back of a datograph (or 1815 chronograph which has the same caseback view) and I think people start to understand why. Their movement finishing is fantastic and they have quite a bit of innovation in the movement as well.

Resale of Lange is still not quite there yet, but that means you can find them in the grey market for pretty good prices. Patek has a more "elegant" design on the front with Lange's design being more German--which style one prefers is obviously a matter of preference. However, if you like the design--you absolutely can't go wrong with an ALS. Production is like 1/10th of Patek--which is probably a hint to why they can have a higher degree of hand finishing.

 

Do you use a winder for all you watches? If so, for how long? I hear good and bad things about winders.

 

Bro- between your watches and your cars....I have a serious man crush on you! Spectacular taste and spectacular collection.

 

My suggestion 5135.
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No, not all go into the winders. 5270 is manual for example.

 

Haha. You’re funny.

 

whats the 3rd AP over on the bottom beside the rolex's?