Paul Walker from Fast and Furious died in a wreck...

I was working the Road America round of the Optima Battery ultimate streetcar shootout year before last and we had a CGT attend & compete. It was amongst the top placed cars in every aspect (high speed track, slalom, braking, accelerating, & etc) of the event and it didn't have a single mishap.

Comparatively speaking, there where a fair amount of cars this did have spinouts and one car did get totaled. The driver was quite experienced in tracking already and competes in vintage racing as well.
From what I saw firsthand of it competing in anger against some of the top pro touring cars in the country I'm not buying too much into the twitchy handling characteristic. Perhaps the CGT by nature just requires that good of a driver to tame it?
2 pics I took of it............
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Exactly , well said .

Once again Peloton out of the Cult you follow in Woking you have little idea of what you are on about matey !

The Super sports are a replacement for the CGT ps2, correct . The particular ps2 used on the cgt was a specific cgt compound and thus very expensive to make in such limited numbers . The ss is a tyre compound used on several cars ( including the agera R ) , it was mainly a matter of cost .

As for the SS tyre , I was using them (in Agera sizes) on the CGT literally years before they were N rated . Another driver and I were unofficial test subjects at Porsche Zentrum UK and we loved the SS . Of course its a better tyre to begin with ( its dual compound ) the SS is a 10 year newer dual compound based on le mans technology . The ps2 was not a very sticky tyre that however has nothing to do with the carrera gt being inherently dangerous .

Futch merely says the CGT is on better tyres now , something I whole heartedly agree with and have pointed out on several occasions ( including on the EVO ultimate analogue supercar test ) and actually proved with Porsche UK .

I think I with 31 000 plus miles in 2 Carrera GT's ( at least half of that on track ) may be in a slightly better position to comment on this car than people who read the odd blog or review on the www .

The Carrera GT is a 612 hp mid engined supercar . It has no stability management , torque vectoring , 4 wheel steering , brake steer or any other new fangled technology that so called "drivers" today rely on . It is a driving tool , a pure unadulterated drivers car ( arguably the best of all time ). It does EXACTLY what you tell it to , nothing more and certainly nothing less ( like a 288 gto , f40 or f50 et all ) . If you ask it to crash ; it will ( like any other pure drivers car ) that is not knowing how to drive , not a car being dangerous . That is a completely different thing altogether Peloton .

In short ; YES , anyone that thinks the Carrera GT is an inherently dangerous car and any trickier than any 600 plus hp car with no electronic nannies is being completely and utterly ridiculous or , [horror of horrors] simply cannot drive well enough to own a 600hp drivers car with so few driving aids .

The End

 

I hear you, but a CGT may be trickier than most are used to when out of shape. Same can be said of a mid single seater, and may say that about an Elise. Maybe people these days are just too used to nannies bailing them out.

In any event 9 yo tires means it would have got out of shape much quicker and at less speed than fresh tires. From my experience on track, once tires cycle out and become hard the front or rear can lose it suddenly and ina very snappy manner. All that power can mean they went way over any tire limit before they even realsied taction was gone.

Of anyhting modern in have driven the list is 1) CGT 2) 997.2 GT3 and Elise. Pretty much everythign else may be paper fast but is either too isolated or anodyne.

In the end a CGT is like a superbike, you cant just flooor it anywhere, and old tires let go in unpredictable ways.

As to the 9 yo tire debate, I have seen plenty of people loose it on track with slicks one heat cycles past their due date. You know its late in the season, youa re not down to the wear marks, maybe its a little cold out and the tires have cycled one too many times.

I also see plenty of low mileage high performance cars that not only have old tires, but years between oil changes etc. People buy these things to have them, to pose and dont necessarily spend the money to replace time expired items, they think that if the 12K servive took 12 years to get there its all still good..

For a street car without alot of tire heat cycles methingks up to 5 years is Ok, some may think this si too long and otehrs wonder why you throw out perfectly good tires. On track with slicks in a light lotus 15-20 heat cycles if you are lucks which is a few days.

Maybe Walker and Co had been around that bend many times in other cars at similar speeds and therefore didnt thinkt hat speed was dangerouns but the power ramp up of the V10 and the old tires caught them out. After all are these not the guys who drive GTrs?

 

AMEN!

 

Great post and FYI Im not disputing the fact that 9 year old tyres are crap and dangerous Mr Boxerman . I couldn't agree more with that conclusion . I merely flat out deny the Carrera GT is inherently a dangerous car and reacts in a way not consistent with a 612 hp mid engined car with no stability management .

People need to drive cars they have the skills to , not just the money to ( and I do NOT mean
those involved in this terrible accident God rest their souls ).

 

Always love to read actual experience, and from someoen who uses the machine in anger.
I said before of any near modern car I ever drove, the CGT was hands down the favorite, by far. Didnt seem twichy to me at all, but then I was not necessarily at the limit. 2 freinds have them, and they have nbot crashed.
To me its the superbike syndrome, you knwo someone going for a first drive and opening it up.

 

Roger Rodas' Widow Suing Over Porsche Carrera GT Crash Page 1 of 2 | Reviews | Prices | Australian specifications

Not surprised that this is happening, with the suing culture so popular in the States and all.

I am saddened by it though, simply because the accident happened because Roger lost control. He was on (very) old tires, and the recommended newer tires had never been fitted. Love the fact that the lawyer wrote in the lawsuit that the car didn't have a proper roll cage or racing fuel cell. It's a road car, not a race car, get it through your thick skull! Anything to make a buck...

 

Here we go .

 

Meanwhile, used CGT went from $0.25M prior to crash to $0.5M today.

 

Porsche the cause of the crash that killed actor Paul Walker, driver's widow claims in lawsuit | News | Motorsport.com

All for the money...

 

I don't think the recent rise in CGT prices has anything to do with this crash; the entire collector Porsche market has been going up dramatically over the last 12-18 months.

drive at double the speed limit around a curve on outdated tires, but of course it's the manufacturer's fault

 

Pretty sad.

 

This. I'd not be one to sue here, but if I did I would target the last person who serviced the car and didn't recommend replacing those tires immediately. In fact they should have insisted the car was completely unsafe to drive on tires that were more than double the life span that they should have been on the car.

>8^)
ER

 

I still don't agree with suing over this kind of stuff. How do we know that they serviced the car? How do we know that if the car was serviced, that the service people didn't recommend changing the tires. And again, what is the service shop supposed to do, hold the car hostage till they buy new tires? In my mind the tires are a side story anyway.

Excessive speed is the story. The guy driving the car chose to go too fast for conditions and bad things happened. Most car enthusiasts have gone too fast for conditions at one point or another. Some have gotten lucky and not suffered any damage to car or people. Others have messed up both.

We need to encourage personal responsibility for this stuff.

 

Suggesting personal responsibility in 2014 is like touting communism in the 50s. Never going to happen in a million years.

 

Make that any proper drivers car:

F40
F50
CS (UK)
599 GTO, very young still but holding value, if not creeping up slightly
997.1/.2 and 4 liter RS versions
Zonda's
430 scuds are starting to go up (in the UK at least)

Which is unfortunate for me, as I have none of these yet!

 

It all about the Benjamins..This 2005 incident set the precident for the Carrera GT "it's not my fault" crowd. It's the car, the tires, the track, the Ferrari Owners Club.....

$4.5 million awarded in Porsche Carrera GT case

By Merritt Johnson
Posted Oct 24th 2007 12:38PM

Over two years ago a crash involving a Porsche Carrera GT during a Ferrari Owner's Club track day killed two event participants when they hit the wall at over 100 mph while trying to avoid a Ferrari merging onto the front straightaway. The driver and Carrera GT owner was Ben Keaton, an avid automotive enthusiast who regularly shared his wisdom on the website 6SpeedOnline.com. The car's passenger was Corey Rudl, a prospective Carrera GT buyer who wanted to take a ride. The tragic loss of these two lives brought out a great debate in the safety of California Speedway's tight infield road course, the responsibility of the event organizers, and the design of the Porsche Carrera GT itself.

While the track event participates signed waivers noting that they were aware of the inherent dangers associated with driving at high speeds on a closed course, those waivers were dependent on who was found to be negligent in the event of an incident. Tracy Rudl, the wife of passenger Corey Rudl, filed a lawsuit claiming gross negligence by many parties associated with the track event. She recently received a settlement of approximately $4.5 million. The contributing parties to the settlement fund were 2% from the merging Ferrari driver, 8% from Porsche, 41% from California Speedway and Ferrari Owner's Club and finally 49% from the Carrera GT driver's estate.
[Source: Sports Car Market Magazine]



Stories such as this one can greatly divide opinion. On one hand, two guys lost their lives voluntarily participating in a dangerous event. On the other hand, the extent of the damage could have been reduced, if not completely avoided, by greater thought and care on the part of the race track and event organizers in the areas of visibility and pit-in/pit-out coordination. Then there's the debate about how safe the Porsche Carrera GT is to drive at high speeds. Hopefully the result of this lawsuit will not scare off other event organizers due to liability, but merely cause them to put more thought into eliminating potential safety issues.

 

If they can prove the car is inherently unsafe then they might have a case.

If this was some old car that was clearly a deathtrap, then sure there is no expectation. However I would think that a modern sportscar should be able to safely handle some spirited driving.

Nine year old tires? Give me a break. I'm sure half of the similarly aged low-mile weekend cars owned by fchatters are on their original tires.

 

Is driving in close quarters, in an industrial park, at an unsafe speed (reportedly almost 80 to 100MPH)..."spirited drving". I say it is reckless.

Take it to the track. Even there there is NO guarantee you will walk away from anything.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pt43DHj4ngw[/ame]

 

Well known Fontana Crash----Ferrarii Owner Club event....

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isU6roLVHE0]Porsche Carrera GT crash - YouTube[/ame]

 

"almost 80 to 100mph" isn't that fast IMO... should have been easily controllable.

But obviously in this situation something/somebody went wrong.

 

A car like this likely has good records.

Those records typically reflect the items that have been serviced, problems found and corrected as well as pending future service needs. I've had a Ford dealer recommend replacing tires - those servicing a high performance Porsche should be focused on such things.

You are correct here. The most they could do if the customer was unwilling to replace the tires is document their wear and age and that they advised the customer to replace them.

The Carrera GT is very sensitive to tires and high performance tires are more sensitive to age as far as the degradation of their performance envelope. The tires are the only thing touching the road surface and ensuring optimum traction can be maintained. Hardly a side story - they are THE story.

Yes, it was the poor condition of those tires.

>8^)
ER

 

100mph is ridiculously fast when the car is not travelling in a straight line.

 

CGT is a semi race car, with very sensitive handling vs tires age, temperature, wear,etc. All these factors are very important when you drive a CGT in a spirited way.
Rhodas should've known that, since he considered himself to be a "professional".
I agree that most of exotic car owners don't pay attention to their tires but most of them don't drive their cars at 100mph in a 35 zone and those that do, most likely have all the modern electronic nannies to save their butts when they get over their heads.
Rarely owners of "raw" cars (without electronics, ESP,etc) drive beyond their skill limit, too expensive when it happens......

 

Yeah good points.

It's completely believable that the guy made mistakes and that tires are contributing cause, but I would also find it easy to believe there was some fault with the car too if the evidence suggested it. We'll see how it plays out.