Hello all. Nearly pulled the trigger on the 89 Mondial t from located near DC. PPI found oil leak so I shied away. Dealer is repairing the leak (Cam Seals). There was some scrapes on undercarriage due to bottom outs a while back and part of the lower valance covering under the Radiator fans as broken away. Just had the second major in fall and new clutch. Brake service few hundred miles ago, good tires, etc. New rear window in top, however top has small repair mark (cosmetic). even bolster wear isn't that bad. Main good point is the car is nearly all original.. Paint, Interior. Still in contact if dealer and might still buy. Found this video of same car. Haven't heard one of these in person, but this looks and sounds pretty good to me. https://youtu.be/aDlcla-31qY My thought is perhaps this is the one that is mechanically good, but will need a few odds and ends that I can do over time. (as one member said "they all need something"). Any other advice?
In the search for my car I looked at and drove this Mondial. I will say that this car shows well and there were no apparent flaws visually. However, when I showed up they could not start the car and had to charge the battery to ready it for the test drive. A few things that I saw: 1, there was something odd with the carpet piping where the vinyl is alligatoring. 2, after driving for a good 30 min the transmission was still stiff and gear changes were noisy. 3, they said the car had a partial major that they did in house, which was a red flag. 4, the low mileage and the car fax history did not jive with how this type of car would have been used or stored between car fax dates. Because of this, I started looking more closely at the car and noticed that the odometer numbers didn’t look quite right. See the attached picture and use your own experience and judgement. 5, the sales rep was very, very aggressive and he acted really odd. He was more interested in getting a down payment then answering my questions and making me feel comfortable about the car. His numerous emails and very pushy voicemails had me concerned. This, combined with all of the other issues turned me off of this car and this was last summer. This car is priced well, so it makes me wonder why it is still on the market. My advise would be to proceed with caution. Image Unavailable, Please Login
The Dealer first sent me a carfax from 2002. When I pressed for an updated one he sent the same one again and then after a third request he sent an updated one from 2014. If you look at the mileage history, it is very suspect. What is even more interesting is the car drove only 438 miles from '99 to '07 and 0 miles from '07 to '14. I am not an expert, but 438 miles in 15 years is a red flag? Documented Date Documented Mileage Driven Miles Years Notes 7/94 11645 2002 Carfax 12/97 20005 8360 3.42 2002 Carfax 3/98 20629 624 0.25 2002 Carfax 3/99 21851 1222 1.00 2014 Carfax 4/07 22289 438 8.11 2014 Carfax 5/14 22289 0 7.11 2014 Carfax 8/14 23939 1650 0.26 Picture of ODO
Hey guys.. here is what I know from my recent Carfax attached. It looks like what you have. I do think it's a red flag that it was driven so little, but he indicated a friend of his owned it and kept it at his vacation home and didn't drive it. However, they did do the second major and are they are fixing the cam seal and adjusting the clutch.. See Service records from both majors.. Am I missing something major.. or just a warning about the lack of being driven. Do you think the odometer has been tampered with? Thanks Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Signs your odometers been tampered with: (SOURCE: How to look for signs of odometer tampering - Fraud Guides) First, use CarFax or AutoCheck to request a copy of the vehicles history. This will include state registration and emission inspection data and a lot, lot more. Examine the dashboard for scratch marks or loose screws. They could indicate your odometers been tampered with. However, its also a sign of normal maintenance including light bulb replacement. If the odometer is of the older, analog variety rather than digital, check to see if the mileage numbers are aligned. Give the 10,000 digit a careful examination. During a test drive, does the odometer stick? Check for service stickers (oil change, tune up, etc.) that may have the vehicles true mileage. Check under the cars hood and inside the door. Check the owners manual for maintenance records. If it appears that pages were removed, ask about it. This is a red flag. If youre purchasing the car from a dealership, ask they did a computer check. If so, did they find any warranty records? Ask for a moment to look at the vehicles title. Look closely for signs the mileage has been altered. Take note of the titles issue date. Was the vehicle sold soon it was issued? Be wary if it was. This is a common way tricksters mask a vehicles actual mileage. Are there signs of wear? Check the arm rests, carpet, steering wheel, and pedals. A lot of wear could be a sign the car has more miles on it than the odometer indicates. If any of these parts look new, too new, it could be a sign the owner is trying to hide something. Ask a trusted mechanic do a vehicle inspection. The inspection should include looking for signs of odometer tampering.
First, this car is a beautiful car. If mechanically it checks out by a trusted source, then enjoy it. I walked away because of the low miles driven over such a long period. They shared with me the same story about it being with a friend, but given what I shared already the story sounded fishy. Regardless of the mileage, welcome to the Mondial Family. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Thanks Terrrance.. I did have a PPI done by Wisko Engineering where they found the engine cam seal leak. Also the clutch pinging issue, both of which they are fixing. I will certainly drive and inspect before I hand over the money. However, I appreciate that you've seen it in person (I haven't yet) and driven it. Thanks for all the advice. I see you bought a 91? If you don't mind be asking, what did you pay for it and miles? Can't wait to drive it. Also Howie.. thought i posted this. Price is $35k and milage is just over 24k Thanks
Odometer numbers don't align which seems odd. Do they have service records for the '94-'97 time frame, or just the two majors? Did you drive the car?
To "fix the cam seal" the motor needs to come out. Point to ponder: "The oil leak he is now experiencing now is a result of not doing the entire, far more expensive complete service." Maybe read this entire thread before making a decision? http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/348-355-sponsored-bradan/315646-348-cam-seal-do-not-do.html
Misaligned numbers on a 25 yo ferrari ODO run by plastic gears is nothing to get excited over. The fact that the car has only driven a few miles in the last few years is not either. What is concerns that the seller is willing to rev the thing so freely when apparently cold. I'd be more concerned about the dealer fixing the leaks and clutch or what they actually did as a "partial major" on the car than the actual condition of the car.
Looks like the speedo is sitting proud. It should be flush with the other gauges and tachometer. A partial major could be an oil change or an air filter. There is no such thing as a "partial major" I'd ask for their documentation on what was done. Their cost card should have all money they spent on it. Ideally they would have receipts for parts. I'm not a fan of a car that hasn't been driven for a pile of years. Just my opinion.
I am sorry, but 438 Miles over 15 years is tough for me to believe. That is 36 miles per year or 3 miles a month. I have put over 600 on mine since I got it back from the shop on 12/26. But, I love driving my car and take it out any and every time I can. As for having the selling dealer work on it, I agree that this is not a good idea. Especially from what I have seen from them. These cars are very specific and need someone that knows and cares about what they are doing. Now, I will admit that had the dealer I bought mine from, Reina in WI, do the major and clutch. I did this because I did my research and found them to be a solid shop. Filippo was awesome to deal with and Lorenzo is a surgeon under the engine hatch. I am very happy with Reina. For an 89 Mondial t, $35K is a good price. But, if the Major is suspect and there are other issues as mentioned a $10K shop bill, to start with, will be in the future. The Reina Operating Room. Doc Lorenzo on Duty: Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Wow.. All great stuff guys. I attached the service records above that show the same parts for the Major service last year as done in Washington Ferrari in 99. He indicated it was a full Engine out major, so not sure where the partial major came from. Could anyone look at the set of records above and let me know if I am off here? Also has receipts for Clutch, etc. I do wonder about the cam seals leaking so soon after a major, but he indicate that one of them didn't get set right and that "it happens" also he replaced it during the fix which I believe was engine out again (no other way to do it right?) As for milage.. I get 1,104 miles from 99 to 07 and 1,650 between 07 and 2014 Still not a lot for 8 year and 7 year periods TMM the car fax you sent seems to have the same dates. But you're numbers in the post are different: Your post: 3/99 21851 1222 1.00 2014 Carfax (Attached Carfax shows 21,185 - you potentially mixed up the numbers?) 4/07 22289 438 8.11 2014 Carfax (Attached Carfax shows Same 22,289) 5/14 22289 0 7.11 2014 Carfax Attached Carfax shows 23,939 - different from yours but same as your picture) Did you take speedo pict before or after you dove it? And do you remember what date you drove it? Again, I haven't driven it or seen it in person. This all through phone calls and great advice from you all. Thanks for helping me on this.
It sounds like a good car and the price is good too! some people have more money and interests and let cars sit and low miles can be expected dont let the car scare you an abused car will be evident : interior and such just know that no matter how perfect there is always something to do on an older car relax and enjoy
So I did a quick spreadsheet in order to do the calculations. Using your numbers and mileage provided, this is 206 miles per year or 17 miles per month. I, personally, still cant rationalize the low mileage given this cars documented mileage history. This is not a 250 GTO, 246 GT or 512BBi. The picture sent of the ODO was from 1989 Ferrari Mondial Mondial T Cabriolet for sale #1649364 | Hemmings Motor News. The odometer reporting here is inline with what I saw when I test drove the car and was submitted by the dealer.
+1 There will always be something to fix. And we sometimes have to remind ourselves that these aren't new cars. We aren't going to be getting Honda Civic reliability. I don't think a cam seal leak is much to worry about - especially if it's more of a weep. Don't all old Ferraris leak? Has anyone run an autocheck report? I found that the autocheck sometimes has data that isn't reported by carfax - and vice-versa. It looks like a beautiful car. If the PPI checks out, and the dealer fixes any issues, I'd happily enjoy the car. 35K sounds like a very reasonable price for a T. Most "T"s lately seem to be in the high 30's to mid 40's on price. Sid
As for everything: 10 connaisseurs - 10 opinions: so, I'm posting mine here! If they now do engine out for the cam seals, ask for the full monty: belts and bearings. If the testdrive you do works out well & the price is right for you: jump on it. I wouldn't be to worried for the lack of use along the years. My car did approx 0 miles in 12 years. I did a 'more or less' full maintenance, but I did it myself. BUT: F-cars in hands of guys that can't turn wrenches could be very expensive cars... Do you get any warranty with the car? What's included/what not? my 2 cents and a couple of more restless nights
Update: They sold it out from under me. To be fair I hadn't given a deposit yet, but was planning to go see it and drive it Monday. I had asked a bunch of additional questions and asked for picts and video of he cam seal repair and clutch adjustment. Heard nothing for a few days. Then message today that they sold it to someone else. Fishy? Did my quest for more info push them to sell it to someone who wasn't as thorough?
Look at this as perhaps a good thing. At the end of the day, it wasn't meant to be. There will be another one, perhaps much nicer and without the questionable history this one had. Keep looking.
Hey Jim, I believe that "fishy" was a big one. Had you landed it yourself, it may have capsized your boat. I think a stroke of good fortune caused the line to snap. It's a learning process. Enjoy the experience. Cheers, Hank
Hi Jim, I was going through old posts and came across this one. Interestingly enough, the car that you were originally interested in is the car I own! I purchased it from a guy named Michael in Beverly Hills. It turned out to be a good car, but the little things you sw bothered me (broken valence and radiator shroud, shifting, rim rash and crappy tires), so I got them fixed. Have spent A LOT to get it done, but it is now to my liking. The interior carpets had been replaced and the piping is odd, but the new mats will look great on the car. I'm in the midst of cleaning it and once the weather is nice, I'll post some picks.
