Perplexed ?!? | FerrariChat

Perplexed ?!?

Discussion in 'Other Off Topic Forum' started by someday, Mar 18, 2005.

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  1. someday

    someday Karting

    Jan 8, 2004
    121
    Baton Rouge
    Full Name:
    JP
    A friend calls me the other day and asks an interesting question, "can a helicopter land without power?"

    My initial uninformed answer was "no way", it would fall like a rock. Too busy at work lately to strike out on the internet, he asked around and comes back to me with the impression that it can land powerless from a discussion he had woth a coworker.

    Anyone ever thought of this or figured it out? I just do not see how logically a helicopter can lose power and still have any sort of lift. Interesting question that I would like to know the answer to......

    Maybe i need to try howstuffworks.com

    Time restriction, I actually have work to do at work, sounds weird huh.......


    Josh
     
  2. barranr

    barranr Formula Junior

    Jul 7, 2004
    287
    Herndon VA
    Full Name:
    Rod Barrand
    Anything can land without power, it'll just land very very hard
     
  3. richard_wallace

    richard_wallace Formula 3

    Feb 6, 2004
    1,957
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Full Name:
    Richard Wallace
    Well - quick answer is:

    Autorotation

    "Autorotation" is the term used for the flight condition during which no engine power is supplied to the rotor system and sustained flight is possible from the rotor blades. The pilot can use the inertia for collective pitch to slow the rate of descent and effect a safe landing. Unlike fixed wing aircraft, rotor wing aircraft are capable of controlled landings during most conditions when power is lost; assuming a suitable landing surface exists below the helicopter. Helicopter pilots often train in autorotation landings.

    Height-Velocity Chart

    Each helicopter flight manual contains a "Height-Velocity" chart, which indicates speeds and altitudes to be maintained so that a safe autorotation may be made in the event of a mechanical or electrical failure. At speed/altitude combinations below the curve in the "caution" areas of the chart, the helicopter would be difficult to safely autorotate. For this reason, the Height-Velocity Chart has been given the nickname "Dead-Man's Curve."

    That should be enough to put your mind at rest...

    Rich
     
  4. fluque

    fluque Formula 3

    Jul 30, 2004
    1,759
    Above 2240m
    Full Name:
    Fernando
    Interesting, I would have thought that it would fall like a rock regardless of height and speed.
     
  5. darth550

    darth550 Six Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jul 14, 2003
    61,145
    In front of you
    Full Name:
    BCHC
    :D

    DL
     
  6. Zertec

    Zertec Formula 3

    Oct 5, 2004
    1,335
    Singapore
    Full Name:
    Clive Reed
    Trickiest time is when in hover.
     
  7. JonBrent

    JonBrent Formula Junior

    Nov 10, 2003
    732
    Heaven on Earth
    Full Name:
    JB
    Richards autorotation description is right on - there are people practicing it over my house every weekend (we are half way between Buchanon & Napa - a very popular training route).

    The helicopter just becomes an expensive autogyro glider when power is pulled, no loss of control. I'd love to see a V22 autorotate though!
     
  8. someday

    someday Karting

    Jan 8, 2004
    121
    Baton Rouge
    Full Name:
    JP
    Mr. Wallace, Wow

    Great response, thats what I was looking for. Very interesting indeed, they say you learn something new everyday.

    I don't see how if they don't come to F'Chat....

    Cheers,
    Josh
     
  9. shiggins

    shiggins Formula 3

    Nov 20, 2004
    1,280
    #9 shiggins, Mar 18, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I really cannot add much to Richards response, good job.

    I am currently helping to design an autogyro for a freind of mine. The principle behind the autogyro is autorotation. They are much like a helicopter in that they have a rotor which provides lift. The difference being that the rotor is unpowerd. It is made to spin through aerodynamic forces alone (autorotation). The power for the aircraft comes from, in my case, a rear mounted pusher prop. They're interesting aircraft which I knew very little about before I started designing one.

    This is a typical autogyro layout.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  10. Dr C

    Dr C Formula Junior

    Dec 1, 2002
    480
    Kansas City
    Full Name:
    Ed
    In the one lesson that I have had in a helicopter, prior to completing my training for my private license in fixed wing craft, the instructor said that, if you are moving forward when the engine fails, autoregulaton will allow you to maneuver, but make your decisions in a timely manner. If the helicopter is hovering when the engine fails, with no forward motion, you're going to drop really fast.

    Seems simple enough to me.
     
  11. DGS

    DGS Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    May 27, 2003
    71,946
    MidTN
    Full Name:
    DGS
    This reminds me of a time when someone looked at a Mooney M20C and asked how such a small prop could hold up the aircraft.

    I asked if he had noticed those two things on the sides we call "wings".

    An airplane is called a "fixed wing" aircraft, and has to be moving forward through the air to get airflow over the wings to get lift. A helicopter is a "rotary wing" aircraft, and the rotor blades have to be moving through the air to produce lift.

    Of course, lift also produces dynamic drag (in addition to basic airframe drag), so without power, the trick is to not run out of wing motion too soon.
     
  12. Aureus

    Aureus Formula 3

    Autogyros are so damned cool. I have very few goals on "what I must own in my life" but an Autogyro is on that short list.
     

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