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Photo needed TR59

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by paulyb, Oct 15, 2005.

  1. paulyb

    paulyb Karting

    Nov 1, 2003
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    paul bellis
    Can anyone post a photo of the TR59 which won Le MAns 1960. I really need a picture of it as it ran at Le Mans from the rear.

    Many thanks
    Paul
     
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  3. Gramps

    Gramps Karting

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    #2 Gramps, Oct 15, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Paul,

    Not a very good photo but it was the only one from the rear that I could find of #11 in the race. No idea from whence it came.

    Hope this helps,

    Gary
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  4. ferrari4evr1

    ferrari4evr1 Formula 3

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    #3 ferrari4evr1, Oct 16, 2005
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  5. michael platzer

    michael platzer F1 Veteran

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    The 1960 LM winner driven by Gendebien/Frere is 0772TR - right ?
     
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  7. Miltonian

    Miltonian F1 Veteran

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    #6 Miltonian, Oct 17, 2005
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  8. paulyb

    paulyb Karting

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    Thank you all so much - that's really helpful and just what I needed.

    348Spider - Barchetta have both 0772TR and 0774TR listed as the winning car and 0772TR possibly destroyed. I'm not one of the serial number experts, but I'm guessing there's a bit of controversy surrounding this one as well!!!!
     
  9. Miltonian

    Miltonian F1 Veteran

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    There is a six page article on 0774 in the March 1996 issue of "Thoroughbred & Classic Cars". According to this article, Ferrari had entered 0772 at LeMans in 1960, but it was destroyed at the Targa. So they simply put 0772's chassis plate onto 0774, and it won the event. Afterwards, it became 0774 again, and later went to Eleanor von Neumann, to Rosebud Racing, to Innes Ireland, to Colin Crabbe, and to Paul Pappalardo.
     
  10. paulyb

    paulyb Karting

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    OK - thanks for clarifying that.
     
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  12. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    This is correct? This car which recently sold on for more than $12 million US didn't have it's original chassis plate and at one time it's chassis plate was swapped by Ferrari? Hummmmm
     
  13. retired

    retired Formula Junior

    Jul 30, 2004
    282
    As per the factory records: TR 0772 was never built, Because the car entered on the LeMans records was 0772 the "book writers and presumed experts" have made the assumption that 0772 was a car. Not true. The travel papers for the Lemans TR were done in advance, error was made, Ferrari changed the the last diget of the 0774 to a 2 on both the engine and the chassis and raced the car. after the completion of the race, the number was change back to a "4" at the factory" and recorded on the factory records.

    This is correct? This car which recently sold on for more than $12 million US didn't have it's original chassis plate and at one time it's chassis plate was swapped by Ferrari? Hummmmm
    Today 02:19 AM (QUOTE)


    Above is also not correct. The sale price is "WAY WRONG" and the factory team proto type cars of this era did not have serial number plates. they had a stamping on the chassis and engine only right up thru the 1970's




    the car that was damaged at the TARGA fLORIO WAS 0774 NOT 0772 AS STATED IN SOME BOOKS.
     
  14. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    I wasn't thinking that there was any question at all about the continuous history of the car only wondering if the chassis number had been changed at some point to match a carnet/entrance papers. It's very interesting that 0772 never existed except briefly as a restamping by Ferrari. (Not as a separate car). Were the chassis stampings of 0774 on the chassis tubes or on a separate welded on plate as per the 412P's?

    Sorry about being wrong about the price.
    I hope it was WAY more.

    As an aside someone should get all the things you know down properly as there's a lot of stuff printed, in the books you refer to for example, that is wrong and that there was never a 0772 is very interesting.

    Best
     
  15. retired

    retired Formula Junior

    Jul 30, 2004
    282


    check your email
     
  16. Miltonian

    Miltonian F1 Veteran

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    #14 Miltonian, Oct 17, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    This is the TR that was damaged in practice for the Targa in 1960. I don't know what chassis number it was. The picture is from Sports Cars Illustrated, August 1960, article by Jesse Alexander. According to the text:

    "Wrecked in training was the latest 3-litre V12 with wishbone independent rear suspension. Cliff Allison had a narrow escape when a tire blew after being struck by a stone. Going out of control in a fast bend at the end of the long Targa straight near the coast, the Ferrari barely missed a stone wall and landed in a roadside ditch, with Allison unhurt but the car badly bent."

    Whichever car it was, it doesn't appear to be destroyed. If Allison was unhurt, it couldn't have been going very fast when it went into the ditch.
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  17. T308

    T308 Formula 3
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    It's 0780. The major damage doesn't show in this photo as it was all in the front. Engine torn off the mounts, front suspension destroyed, and there was major frame damage (the diff case was broken as well). BTW, this was a TRI60.

    It was repaired with parts from 0772 and was later "evolved" into 0808 in 1962.

    T308
     
  18. paulyb

    paulyb Karting

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    Thanks guys - really helpful as always and some interesting points.

    If anyone else has more photos they'd be much appreciated.
     
  19. R33

    R33 Formula Junior

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    And to make it all worse, Cliff Allison sadly passed away earlier this year. A real shame, as he was a great guy that i was fortunate enough to spend some time with last year.
    Another source of information sadly vanished.
     
  20. Miltonian

    Miltonian F1 Veteran

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    I'm going to drag this back up top again, because I happened to be looking at a new book in Borders today, "Sports Racing Cars" by Anthony Pritchard, and it had some information on the subject of the TR wrecked in practice for the Targa Florio in 1960. I jotted down some notes. Didn't buy the book, it was $49.95. The quote is from Cliff Allison, who was driving the car:

    "The car that we were driving was a brand new TRI60, and in practice there was a terrific bang as I went along the straight. I swerved the car across the road and it felt OK. I wasn't until I had slowed down a bit that I realized that one of the front tires had blown and I was headed straight for the abutment of a bridge. I slid the car into a field and I ended up right across the other side in a ditch. After practice I returned to the car with the mechanics to find that nothing had broken on the car. 'It was only a blown tire' they said, but for me it was a very nasty experience. We took over another older Testa Rossa for the race. I did the first stint and when I came into the pits to hand over to Ginther we were in 4th behind a trio of Porsche entries. Ginther took over from me, but only a kilometer from the pits he tried to pass a slower car on the outside, went off the road and hit a tree. The car was sitting there on its tail with its nose pointing upwards."

    So the car that was wrecked in practice by Allison apparently WASN'T badly damaged. Why wasn't it raced if it only had a blown tire??
     
  21. T308

    T308 Formula 3
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    Perhaps Cliff's memory wasn't that good or he was rewriting a little history. The TRI was the quickest of the five cars the team brought to the Targa and if it "wasn't damaged" it's hard to imagine why it wasn't raced if it could have been repaired. Likewise it would have been expected to appear at the 'Ring three weeks later if all had been easily fixed. That it didn't show up until LeMans would indicate there was more damage done that Allison had forgotten or didn't fathom.

    T308
     
  22. Miltonian

    Miltonian F1 Veteran

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    Now it occurs to me. When the mechanics said "Nothing was broken on the car" and "It was only a blown tire", they have must have meant that was what CAUSED the accident, not the extent of the damage done in the accident. That makes sense.
     
  23. FerrariStuff.com

    FerrariStuff.com Formula 3

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    #21 FerrariStuff.com, Nov 7, 2005
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  24. Derek250TR

    Derek250TR Karting

    May 7, 2006
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    Does anyone have information regarding the whether the TRI60 had a rearmounted transmission and or rear inboard disc brakes?
     

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