Photocromatic Roof

In that case we should all just drive a GT3.....

 

Just one thing further. Don’t be afraid of big numbers here. I used a PPI to negotiate a $40K reduction of the purchase on my 612. The PPI showed about 20K needed to be done to bring it to absolute pristine condition (all easily repairable bolt on stuff—servicing, tires, etc.). I did the extra 20K just because I could and the dealer had overpriced it in the first place.

You have money and they want it and they need to move this car (it is probably eating a hole in their floor plan). Remember your power here. There are also a lot of black cars on the market so they wont get a rare color premium and it would be easier for most black Ferrari buyers to simply move on and buy another black one “without issues.”

 

In reference to the old car comment, I'm saving up my pennies for a 550 Maranello. Such a joy to drive. Maybe I'm getting old too but the 812/Lusso do nothing for me visually and they are just so ridiculously over powered.

But, a TDF.....

 

Josh, this is excellent advice. It's too much for me to type out here (it's after 5 PM and I'm having my Manhattan), but to piggyback on Ron's advice, here's basically how to approach the salesperson. Before walking in, decide on your ideal steal price. I think a car you were interested in is priced at $109K and you said you would buy it at $94K. Offer something around $85K. Now be careful how you offer it. If you just blurt it out the SP will think you're an ass and tell you to get lost. Tell him/her you love the car, you really want it, but you just paid your income tax and it was a huge surprise this year (which is not a lie for many people ).

He/she will tell they can't possibly sell the car at that price. Direct them away from the price and smooze about the car. Let him/her sell you on it. Eventually say, "Joe/Jane do you want to make a deal on this car today"? Of course they'll say yes. Then take out your checkbook, right in front of him/her write a check to the dealership in the amount of $5000. Hand him/her the check (make sure he/she takes it in their hand). Say write up a contract for $87K and we got a deal. It is very difficult for a SP or GM to give back that $5000 check.

At this point they might take it or they might counter or they might throw you out. In any of last two cases be prepared to walk away, but make sure they have your phone number. And don't be surprised if at some point you get a call back. Of course this also means you may not buy this particular car, but as Ron said, just move on to the next one.

Josh, I gave you the Evelyn Wood version (she was a speed read teacher for you millenials). There is a definite technique and finesse to this negotiation, but it would take a small pamphlet for me to explain and I'm ready for my second Manhattan.

 

Love this!

Just don't forget to snatch the check back if they throw you out!

 

Paul, a man after my own heart. It is almost 4 PM on the west coast. Martini time!

Josh, we are all pulling for you. Absolutely what Paul said, be prepared to walk away but make sure they have your phone number. When I walked away on my 612 it took the salesman 4 days to come back to me. This car is a great opportunity but there will be others out there as long as you dont need a specific color with specific specs. Just remind yourself of that and if someone else steps up you should be able to live with that and move on.

 

Compared to a La Ferrari, sure. Compared to almost anything else? Naaaah.

But seriously, drive it and decide for yourself.

 

Josh, I assume this is what you are looking at in terms of the 2005 (it is the only one on the internet that matches your description):

http://www.scottsdalesport.com/detail-2005-ferrari-612_scaglietti-_asterisk_only_5_589_miles__iconic_ferrari_exclamation_-used-15485228.html

IMHO it is overpriced and it has been for sale for over 400 days. Also remember it is a 2005 and that is the most common 612 for sale and is the absolute “base” model. I would say if the 2008 had its issues resolved it would be worth probably 30K more than this car. So you need to compare apples to apples. Overall an OTO is considered a much more desirable car and probably always will retain a premium over a non OTO car. (I am saying that as a non OTO owner).

Also, depending on what you want to do with your car remember that the low mileage that you are paying a premium for will disappear fast. Personally i would rather have a higher mileage car that has its issues all sorted out and has not been sitting as a garage queen. By comparison if you look at the 08 nothing there is shocking and you could have all of the same issues with the 05 after a few miles of ownership (but then it will be your bank account that pays to resolve those issues).

I would also tell you that I think the 05 will ultimately be much more difficult to resell than the 08, just too many 05s available as the beginning entry level cars (right now 50% of all of the listings on the internet are for 05 cars).

 

I dont know the overall costs, just a few. But both cars are listed for about the same price. So if that were to be the best you could do on both then you would have 30K more to spend repairing the 08 based on relative values. So you really need to know the final price of each to compare.

I would suggest contacting the Ferrari dealer that did the PPI and find out what they estimate for the repairs that they listed. The Porsche dealer should facilitate that if he wants to sell the car to you (and the Ferrari dealer might talk to you about it even without authorization—I was looking at a 612 in Chicago at a non Ferrari dealer where the local Ferrari dealer did a PPI and the Ferrari dealer was happy to talk to me about the costs on the assumption I would have the repairs done there). Then you can compare.

Note that Ferrari dealers are pretty pricey. So what the Ferrari dealer tells you will be the top end. If you find a good independent it could cost you significantly less (of course that is “savings” for you— in negotiations with the Porsche dealer you will want to use the Ferrari dealers numbers).

Also bear in mind, the 05 is a 15 year old car. It will have some of these issues going forward, and probably others. So dont think that a low mileage 05 is going to be pristine and have no issues.

 

FF is a wonderful car... I've driven one a fair bit and was impressed enough to start thinking of ways I could put a deal together... and then I came back to my senses.

612 OTO is just an amazing car... as I used to tell people, I think it's the best grand tourer in the world, and for the price it should be! No slouch on the track, either... I let my brother do some laps (he is a past national champion in open wheel cars) and he was passing a Mclaren-- of course, he said well, the Mclaren wasn't very well driven (true), but still...

And as for the CC brakes, they are great. In addition to almost unbelievable performance should you ever need or want that, they don't generate all the brake dust. And for a street driven car, they'll last a long time.

 

I'm afraid there is no escaping the boatload. You know, just because. She's Italian and from Maranello.

Buy the one you want, and address the issues incrementally as the budget allows. None of them are show stoppers imho.

Now as for the purchase technique, you have been given the best advice above !!

Being thrown out of the dealership is a badge of honor !!

 

Coming late to the party. I did a ton of research before buying my 2010 612 OTO, and have had a decent amount of seat time in the FF. I agree with just about everything that's been said.

Roof, schmoof. You can't see the glass from the driver's seat, and from the outside the glass blends into the surrounding metal (especially on a black car) so you can't discern it very well from there either. Fuggedaboudit except in negotiating the price. As someone else said, you'll futz with maybe twice. If you do decide to put a tint on, I would do it on the outside, not inside, as it would provide some protection against errant rocks if on the outer surface.

IMO, the big advantage an OTO has over the earlier model 612 is the F1 "Superfast" transmission. I had a 2005 575 Superamerica for a couple of years. It has the same F1 transmission as the early 612s. I felt the shifting was somewhat lazy. The OTO is much better, not quite DCT quick, but quick enough that I don't think about a DCT (which I experienced in the FF) or a true 6-speed manual.

Suspension options are really a matter of preference. I shake my head at the constant drum beating for "You gotta have it" HGT2 on an OTO. Mine doesn't have it and I am perfectly happy. In fact, I think HGT2 would be too stiff and out of character for a "Gentleman's Touring Car" like the 612. I don't know how the suspension options on non-OTO 612s compare to HGT2 on the OTO. Each to their own, though. I am 71 years old and aged out of coal carts years ago.

To the OP, If you get to the point of wanting another PPI done, contact Loudoun County (LOCO) Exotics at 703-665-2490 and ask for Greg Miller. He was the Service Rep at Ferrari of Washington before he went out on his own with LOCO, which is about 30 minutes away from Porsche of Arlington. Greg's a good guy and very knowledgeable.

 

SF car is pretty. Will need a dash. I can go take a look at it for you and report back.

 

Cobraownr, I absolutely agree with everything you said. The only thing I would point out is that the advantage of the OTO with a faster transmission is only applicable if you allow it to shift automatically. I pretty much always shift manually (unless driving and drinking coffee—where is that damn cup holder—the Italians are worse than the Germans!) for the enjoyment factor. So if that is your bag then that scratches off one more advantage of the OTO (but I would still take the OTO).

 

The FF is a technically great car and I am sure it is head and shoulders above the 612. Unfortunately I hate the shooting brake design whether it is an MGB, BMW or Ferrari. So I could never go there. Now if somebody restomoded an FF and put a 1963 split window Corvette body on it—-I am all in. That would be so cool! I would part with some significant coin for that! With FF values dropping like rocks that day may soon happen.

 

The Grigio Silverstone does look to be in very good condition.

 

Sorry both early cars appear to be in SF, I was talking about the one at the Ferrari dealer. I've never seen the interior badge worn out like that though.

 

You misunderstand. The two have different transmissions, the F1 and the F1-S. The F1-S is a far superior transmission when driving and shifts much faster than the F1. Don't get me wrong, I like the F1 but once you go to F1-S you won't want to go back.

 

Cobraownr, your right, I am not understanding. If you are shifting manually you are saying the F1-S is faster? I am not how that would be since the driver is shifting the transmission. Am I missing something?