Pics at night | FerrariChat

Pics at night

Discussion in 'Creative Arts' started by MobileJay, Oct 7, 2008.

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  1. MobileJay

    MobileJay Formula 3
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    Sep 9, 2006
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    I am having problems setting the camera for pictures that need flash. I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong. Last night I was trying to take pictures of my girlfriends son at baseball practice but with the flash the pictures come out very dark unless I set the ISO up high, then I get grainy pictures. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks
     
  2. blackwood

    blackwood Formula 3

    Dec 15, 2005
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    Can you post an example?

    I'm guessing that his face is lit but everything else is dark. That's what I would expect with a camera that isn't properly using a flash.

    A flash is supposed to light up the foreground/subject, whereas the background is exposed by ambient light (controlled by the ISO/shutterspeed/aperture combination).

    If my guess about your problem is right, I would submit that the camera may be expecting the flash to light everything and thus not adequately exposing the background with ambient light.

    If NOTHING is lit, you may have a problem with the direction or syncronization of your flash.

    But yah, and example with EXIF data would aid in diagnosis.
     
  3. MobileJay

    MobileJay Formula 3
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    #3 MobileJay, Oct 7, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Actually I deleted them because they were terrible. I have an example though of a 430 I took a picture of. Everytime I go do work at this shop I take some pics after I finish(this car I didn't work on it was just gorgeous) and I have to do it with out flash because if not everything comes out to dark. Only problem is, that you will see in the picture, I have to use a tripod becuase it has to be 100% still. I don't usually carry one around with me while I work so the picture that has a lot of light is blurry.

    The darker picture is what I am talking about, although its not like the pictures I took outside. The ones I took outside were very dark, there is a lot of light in the shop so its not AS dark as the outside ones. I just want the flash to pick up more light. The camera is a D40. Do I need an upgraded flash, or just to get the settings down?
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  4. Aero400

    Aero400 Formula Junior

    May 28, 2008
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    #4 Aero400, Oct 7, 2008
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2008
    Are you using the automatic mode (P)?
    If so I would suggest using the Manual mode to adjust aperture and shutter speed yourself. Depending on the focal length of the lens, you can probably get away with handholding at around 1/30 without too much trouble.

    You'll probably still need to have the ISO turned up a little bit, but keeping the aperture open will give you as much as light as possible there, and then adjusting shutter and ISO appropriately.

    Which lens were you using? The lens' aperture value(s) will come into play, as the aperture only goes so wide.

    What happens with the flash in automatic mode, is that the camera reads the exposure with a burst of the flash, so it's not taking into account the background light.
     
  5. Far Out

    Far Out F1 Veteran

    Feb 18, 2007
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    Try to change the exposure measurement mode from Matrix to Spot.
     
  6. Gemm

    Gemm Formula 3

    Aug 19, 2005
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    #6 Gemm, Oct 8, 2008
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2008
    I'd still use the ambient light, then use exposure compensation to adjust the exposure. Flash on car photography can be quite tricky. Bouncing the light usually works the best but you do need an external flash and low(ish) white ceiling (or wall). You also need to control the hot spot well (or do this in post processing). Good luck!

    ETA: I noticed you were using ISO200. You can increase this to 400 or 800 (or even more) to get faster shutter speed (only if you are hand-holding the camera).
     
  7. Pars

    Pars Formula Junior

    Sep 25, 2006
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    I've got a solution for you. Set the camera to use rear sync flash. You might still need a tripod depending on your ISO and aperture, but rear sync will show the entire picture in a better exposure. Good luck.
     
  8. Gemm

    Gemm Formula 3

    Aug 19, 2005
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    No, rear sync will only fire the flash at the end of exposure instead of the beginning. Maybe you mean slow sync? then the camera will read exposure according to the ambient light.
     
  9. Pars

    Pars Formula Junior

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    #9 Pars, Oct 8, 2008
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2008
    Yes, that is what rear sync does and it has gotten me some great night shots outside at night in very low (or totally dark) light. Though I typically use it for shooting people in dark scenarios. It definitely brings up the background as well. The original poster probably has a better chance of getting a non blurry low light shot with rear sync on than with no flash and no tripod.

    Otherwise, I agree that the best thing to do is shoot with the largest aperture or highest ISO that still will come out with a good image. ISO 800 on the D40 should still produce pretty decent images.
     
  10. Gemm

    Gemm Formula 3

    Aug 19, 2005
    1,163
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    No, rear sync alone wouldn't bring up the background. Exposure would be the same as normal flash. The only difference is the timing of the flash fired, i.e. at the begging or at the end of exposure. You'd still have to combine it with slow sync for the camera to read the ambient light.
     
  11. blackwood

    blackwood Formula 3

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    He was spot metering in the pictures he posted... and that may actually be part of the problem. The spot is generally centered in the viewfinder and is likely not much bigger than the highlight on the rear of the car. So in that first shot, the camera determined exposure based on little more than that highlight, and everything darker was underexposed. In a situation like that, evaluative is probably preferable to spot.

    For shooting a person, though, I'd agree with spot metering so you can ensure that the face will be properly exposed.

    He could have used spot metering shooting manual (or using the exposure lock) if he metered to something else towards the back of the room which would have forced a longer exposure. That's a rough situation though because highly reflective objects like cars often fool the light meter.

    Jay may explore the different sync methods outlined, but IMO the best solution is either increased ambient lighting or a tripod. Flashing cars is a PITA (very hard to do without creating highlights).
     
  12. MobileJay

    MobileJay Formula 3
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    I am going to play around with the settings maybe tonight to see what I can come up with. When I was taking pictures at the park I had it set at 800 ISO and they were coming out better but not great. Thanks for all the help.
     
  13. PaulC

    PaulC Formula 3

    Feb 11, 2003
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    Let me know if you can't figure it out. I shoot with a Canon but I am happy to let you use it and try out some different lenses and an add on flash before you go out and spend $$$.
     
  14. Fenivision

    Fenivision Formula Junior

    Sep 25, 2008
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    There really is only one solution to this problem ..... start lugging a tripod around ....

    As long as you don't have a D3 with ridiculously good noise reduction I don't see any sense in upping the ISO. I think the tradeoff with the Noise is just too big. (Then again it depends on how picky you are with noise - I started out with a D80 - the same sensor as the D40) I for instance shoot a D300 and find anything over IS400 really bad. But then again I always have a tripod in the car or with the camera or (in the best case) I have strobes with me.

    Also don't use your on camera flash for anything - just forget it's there ;)

    And as blackwood said ... flashes on cars are a PITA because cars are specular objects. So as long as you don't happen to have a huge diffusion flat with you for diffused highlights (I'm talking 20'x20') just try and use a tripod to get the exposure right.
     
  15. MobileJay

    MobileJay Formula 3
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    I was thinking about that yesterday, about just having the tripod in the car with me. Paul thanks, I might have to get some pointers next time we meet up.
     
  16. Ducky355

    Ducky355 Formula Junior

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    Do you have an external flash? The difference is night and day (pun intended)
     
  17. Fenivision

    Fenivision Formula Junior

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    For smaller objects I would agree, but a "normal" external flash wouldn't light a car sufficiently (Nikon SB800 or Canon 580EXII).
    IMO there's no way around a tripod.
     
  18. BrainchildF430

    BrainchildF430 Karting

    Oct 25, 2008
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    Mobile Jay -- Excellent color choice! :)

    -AS
     
  19. MobileJay

    MobileJay Formula 3
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    Did you mean great color to take a picture of? The car is not mine, I wish it was but it is not.
     
  20. 4REphotographer

    4REphotographer F1 Veteran

    Oct 22, 2006
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    This is why i refuse to use flash, well at least until I can afford a decent external. I think pretty much all of the in-camera flashes are useless. When I had my D40 I used it maybe twice, it never produced any god pictures, I'd rather have a really grainy picture than one with horrible lighting, and the grain I can somewhat fix is PS.
     
  21. LetsJet

    LetsJet F1 Veteran
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    May 24, 2004
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    If you have gone to the expense of purchasing a nice camera, I'd suggest you purchase a good ext. flash with a diffuser. It is just one part of the solution to your problem. Understand that lighting, besides "just get the shot", is one of the biggest issues in photography. If you want to shoot in low light you need the fastest lenses, best supplemental lighting, and tripod you can afford. While you're at it, an electronic external shutter release wouldn't hurt.

    Next time you have an issue post up a picture and I'm sure you'll get some advice.
     
  22. kvisser

    kvisser Formula 3

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    #22 kvisser, Oct 25, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  23. wetpet

    wetpet F1 World Champ
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    May 3, 2006
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    why is the backround so yellow? *****....
     
  24. kvisser

    kvisser Formula 3

    Dec 11, 2004
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    Because your fat a$$ was stuffing yer piehole and not helping me properly light up the area! Thanks!

    I wined you and dined you, housed you in fine establishments in 2 different states, drove you in a $115,000 limo and you still stiffed me when I needed help.

    Man that sounded gay.

    ken
     
  25. nthfinity

    nthfinity F1 Veteran

    Mar 21, 2005
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    Low Pressure Sodium are the most prevalent light in the world, and are very yellow-orange.
     

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