Pista- Dead Lithium Battery Solution

$1995 seems like a good deal to me, vs paying $7000 for the lead conversion.
AGM's last about 3 years on average from the natural lead plate sulphation process.
Why wouldn't someone do it ? I don't see any risk.
Concerning any warranty implications using aftermarket refurbishment, they are out of warranty anyway.
So, why the disinterest ?

 

For those worried about the warranty;
read this;
https://www.autocare.org/government-relations/current-issues/Magnuson-Moss-Warranty-Act
and this;
https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2015/07/20/2015-14065/final-action-concerning-review-of-interpretations-of-magnuson-moss-warranty-act-rule-governing
scroll down to section B1. 16 CFR Part 700

 

And you honestly do believe that Ferrari gives a **** ?

If you EVER want to put that to Ferrari please let me know as many would be interested in the outcome.

We are going to see more of this

https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=ac4c83cec5796478JmltdHM9MTcxOTM2MDAwMCZpZ3VpZD0yMTRjMzA0Yy04MTgzLTY1NzctMmQzOC0yM2MwODBlMzY0M2QmaW5zaWQ9NTQ4Mg&ptn=3&ver=2&hsh=3&fclid=214c304c-8183-6577-2d38-23c080e3643d&psq=people+killed+in+a+lithium+explosion&u=a1aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuYWJjLm5ldC5hdS9uZXdzLzIwMjQtMDYtMjQvc291dGgta29yZWEtZmFjdG9yeS1maXJlLzEwNDAxNjIxNA&ntb=1

 

LiFePO4 batteries, the type that are being discussed in this thread, are the safest form of lithium batteries. They have a very stable chemistry and a very low rate of thermal runaway, unlike NMC (Nickel Manganese Cobolt) lithium batteries, which have a deserved reputation of catching fire.
Both types are lithium batteries, but chemically, they are very different.

 

Are insurance companies that is home insurances covering total destruction house / apartment / building if a Car is being recharged inside the building ?

I can tell you in our building all EV cars are outside. Must be because they believe them to be stable ?

 

I can’t comment on other insurance companies but I’m pretty sure my insurance company doesn’t have an EV charging exclusion, not that I would charge an EV indoors if I had one.

On your second point, most EV’s use NMC chemistry batteries (or a slight variant), they ARE the volatile ones that like to go into thermal runaway if they’re physically damaged or electrically abused. You (assumption) and your building neighbours are right to charge outside. I would hate to see the results of an underground parking lithium battery fire, it would probably compromise the whole building structure.

Once again, the battery discussed in this thread is not an NMC lithium battery as used in EV’s, laptops, tablets, phones, scooters etc, it’s a LiFePO4, or Lithium Iron Phosphate battery. LiFePO4 also has a higher thermal runaway temperature than NMC, 270C vs 210C, and they are inherently incombustible.

Unfortunately, all lithium batteries have been tarred with the same brush, even though some are extremely safe to use, safer than Lead Acid. Lead Acid produces hydrogen when being charged which is an explosive gas.

 

I am a MAD Scientist . I do know the different chemistries involved. You are right that all lithium batteries are being painted with the same brush. Shouldn't be the case however it is.

Thing is no factories , ships , garages being blown up by Lead Batteries . Well none that I am aware of.

Look at the current recall on home batteries Crazy to have them in your garage with a Ferrari parked right next to it.

In Car Sales today there are over 1,000 Teslas for sale , any moving ? > Nope. This whole Lithium movement is BS

No standard petrol car should have a Lithium battery . NOT required. If I had a Pista i would do everything possible to convert it to a Lead Battery operation.

 

Sorry if I came across condescending, didn't know what your knowledge of Lithium batteries was. I agree with everything you wrote, including that Lead Acid batteries are great as starter batteries, but if a car has a LiFePO4 starter battery, I see no reason to change it to LA.

As for LA batteries not blowing things up.......ever been on a golf cart when one explodes under you? May not kill you, or even injure you, but I bet you'll be throwing your underwear out afterward.

Home batteries are a major concern and I see no reason for NMC being used in that application. Home batteries are the perfect application for LiFePO4. One major benefit of NMC is it has a higher energy density, but who cares about how big or how heavy a home battery is?

 

For those needing something even safer than lead or LiFEpo4... Its SODIUM.
and they are available now for those who did the lithium to lead conversion, or if you dont mind the sensing wire alerts, can swap out the original lithiums

 

It would be interesting to see how a 12v Sodium-Ion battery performs as a vehicle starter battery as its discharge characteristics doesn’t really make it suitable as a replacement. It will only perform well when it’s at full charge, which admittedly is most of the time in a car. Once the charge begins to drop, its voltage also drops considerably and will play havoc with vehicle electronics.

To get the most out of Sodium batteries, the devices they’re connected to need to be designed with sodium batteries in mind.

 

All starting batteries are held at full charge.
If yours isnt, then the car has bigger problems.
Sodium has slightly less energy density than LiFEpo4, thus, the Ah capacity is bigger to make up for that.
It certainly beats out lead on all the factors.
Those that have done the lead conversion can certainly take advantage of the Sodium, which would last about 3 times longer.

 

I understand that starter batteries are typically held at full charge, but I know on my 488 with lead acid the battery voltage varies between 12.1 and 14.1 whilst driving. There is nothing wrong with the charging system of my vehicle, that’s how it operates.

It is not just the energy density that is different between LiFePO4 and Sodium batteries, the discharge curve is very very different. Voltage drops much quicker as state of charge drops, hence my comment about it being interesting to see how it functions in a vehicle.

 

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Exactly my point.

So the maximum charge voltage is 4.2v per cell. You cannot use 3 cells as that would give a maximum charge voltage of 12.6v, which is too low for a vehicle. If you use 4 cells the maximum charge voltage becomes 16.8v. A vehicle cannot charge to that voltage but let’s assume 14.6v. That’s 3.65v per cell maximum charge voltage. Using the chart above, you’re only charging to about 85%. Most vehicle electronics will begin to complain at under 12v, that’s 3v per cell minimum. Once again, from the chart above that’s about 50% capacity.

This implies that you can only really use about 35% of the battery capacity if you don’t want any problems. Compared to LiFePO4 which is fully charged at 3.65v and down to about 10% at 3v, so 90% depth of discharge. So not only do you need a physically bigger battery because Sodium is less energy dense, you also need 2.5 times the Ah to get the same useable capacity.

 

Summarizing the above, unlike Lead Acid, or LiFePO4, Sodium Ion’s cell voltage drops too much over its discharge curve to be useful for direct replacement of either type of battery. Devices need to be designed to operate over a much wider voltage to best utilize Sodium batteries.

 

The black chart above is for lead acid. Sodium will charge to whatever V the alternator puts out, same as lithium would
no matter what the SOC % is. Its voltage drop past the 50% point is relevant only in deep cycle applications, which an automobile is not. and is still way better than lead acid.
Its V range is 4.0 to zero so it cannot be over discharged and damaged unlike lithium.
Sodium has a wider temperature operating range as well, does better at lower temps and more environmentally sustainable for those that care.
I have been using a sodium battery in my car for the past 4 months with no ill effects. Same as I did with a Lithium battery.
For more reading, see https://www.delongtop.com/sodium-ion-battery-vs-lead-acid-battery/

 

I was just curious how the rebuilt battery is doing. Is it holding up?

 

I was just curious how the rebuilt battery is holding up?

 

Great!!! That is awesome
Thank
Would you happen to have a phone number for Andy?
Do you know the name of his business?

 

850 725 zero306

 

Thank you so much

 

Hi I was wondering if anybody can point to a link that shows the Ferrari Lithium to Lead/Acid Battery kit that is $6500 dollars. Is there a link showing it, or is it a factory item only?

 

$408.37 for the complete set of parts (basically just the HELE sensor and new ground cable assembly).