My take on car audio is very simple. Buy the right car to build a system. A Ferrari wont cut it at all.
I enoy a good home setup - I am sure there would be some amazing systems on this forum! I am assuming by your question you do to? I'd suggest my system would be very humble in comparison... but I like it. Part of it is a childhood thing - I heard my first proper sound system when I was young and I was blown away by what I thought (before listening) was an antique. It was a McIntosh power amp and I've kind of had a thing for them ever since. My personal system - a pair of McIntosh MC601 monoblocks, Linn Akurate DSM pre amp and B&W 803D3's.
I went 200 cell cats plus valvetronic system (both Kline) in Inconel for the Pista. I have cat delete (full Novitec) on my Lusso and actually had Kline make 200 cell pipes that I will be installing in the next few weeks as full Novitec on the Lusso is just too much for its purpose of daily driving.
Updated List: Novitec Stainless Race Exhaust [Cats/Decat + Muffer w/ or w/o Valves + Tips + Controller for Flaps] Novitec Inconel Race Exhaust [Cats/Decat + Muffer w/ or w/o Valves + Tips + Controller for Flaps] Kline Inconel Exhaust [Cats/Decat + Muffer w/ Valves + Tips + Controller] Kline Stainless Exhaust [Cats/Decat + Muffer w/ Valves + Tips + Controller] Tubi Style Stainless Exhaust [Cats + Muffler w/ Valves + Controller] Fabspeed Stainless Exhaust [Cats/Decat + Muffler w/ Valves + ECU Tune] Capristo Stainless Exhaust [Cats/Decat + Muffler w/ Valves + Tips + Controller] IPE Titanium Exhaust [Cats + Muffler w/ Valves + Tips] IPE "Golden" Titanium Exhaust [Cats + Muffler w/ Valves + Tips] <---- Just noticed this as well. I think this is just a cosmetic variant (that you can't really see) Bodenhaus Exhaust [No information available on their website] Ryft Titanium Exhaust [Muffler w/ Flaps] Anyone know if the stock tips fit the Kline system? IMHO, their tips ruin the appearance of the rear end. Also, it would be good to know if folks with 200 cell cats from either Kline or Novice have had any CEL issues.
Novitec only offers 100 cell, and you need the Novitec plug-in to clear the codes. I believe stock tips work fine for Kline. The stock tips are purely decorative, as are Kline’s cf ones.
The Kline sure is attractive with the X pipe design and especially the price. Even If I do an Inconel Novitec back box, I may eventually add Inconel Kline pipes.
I went valved. It's nice to have the option when doing a 6a drive to the office (my neighbor has a newborn baby).
Do you know if the 200 Cell Cats / Downpipe has OEM fittings on the muffler side? i.e. it's possible to actually mix & match? If the Kline 200 Cell downpipes do not require the OBD chip or a ECU "tune" to ignore the O2 sensor readings, that might be a cool combo. Given that, current options I'm considering 1. Kline Inconel 200 Cell Downpipes + Novitec Inconel Muffler with Flaps/Valves + OEM Ti Tips 2. OEM Downpipes + Novitec Inconel Muffler with Flaps/Valves + OEM Ti Tips 3. Kline Inconel 200 Cell Downpipes + Kline Inconel Muffler with Flaps/Vavles + OEM Ti Tips 4. OEM + Kline Inconel Muffler with Flaps/Vavles + OEM Ti Tips 5. Kline Inconel 200 Cell Downpipes + IPE "Golden" Titanium Muffler with Flaps + OEM Ti Tips 6. OEM Downpipes + IPE "Golden" Titanium Muffler with Flaps + OEM Ti Tips I already had the Forza valve controller installed during PDI. Any thoughts or known issues on the above options?
I am not sure about the Kline fit. Some retailers mentioned it to me, as a mix and match. Also unsure about he 200 cel. I have read reports of both CELs being thrown as well as no issues. Novitec seems to have a pretty successful following, hence whey I am leaning towards it. There are some who don't see it worth the money, and prefer the design of the Kline, and points are valid. Like I mentioned before, there is lacking of reference videos, not that they are a stellar representation anyway. I look forward to the incoming Kline reviews. Most of the Novitec videos I have researched are decat or 100cel. I personally will wait until the end of warranty for high flow cats unless my dealer agrees to it and can back me up. That being said, I am leaning towards the valved Novitec in Inconel. It'll boost the experience but not make it too intrusive and obnoxious. For the most part, when i am in the car, there is a passenger, and being able to get rid of the drone at 3000prm with the push of a button will be convenient. I would prefer to lean towards the non-valved X pipe design Novitec, but peace of mind with the valve, and also having the car be able to function in a stock manner, seems to outweigh the slight tonal preference.
Very nice. With regards to speakers I built my own and every speaker has its own amp, fully active. My preamp is apogee the same unit for 30 years.
I totally agree. Maybe the muffler only change with flaps is the cleanest option that has the least impact [positive or negative]. I know it's nuts, but I am tempted to get the Novitec Inconel with Flaps, IPE Golden Titanium with Flaps, and Kline with Flaps to do a side by side comparison. Not sure if there are members here that already have the IPE that can take some high quality audio. I think in general, it would be pretty awesome of the community had a high quality mic and/or camera that could just be shipped to people with exhausts to share videos.
Cant wait until the travelling opens up. Little did I know that IPE is made in Kaohsiung Taiwan. I deal with a factory around the corner and been there at least 40 times. But I have to tell you there is absolutely no way these exhausts cost this much.
Fwiw I have chatted with a member here at length about his Kline system which he has had on his Pista for some while now and he raves about how good it is. He has shared various vids and pics with me and it looks an impressively made system. He has the valved Kline inconel x pipe version with the two small muffler cans and with 200 cel high flow cats. He says the fit up is absolutely perfect and not some mix and match or poor fit as suggested and i tend to suspect this is just talk to detract in favour of the more expensive Novitec - afterall it wouldnt pay a reseller in favor of novitec to promote a competitors product - perfectly understandable. What he likes most about his Kline is that it adds treble to the base as the revs rise. Says it had no drone at all and overall is a significant improvement over the stock system and sound. Also says that off throttle it is still too quiet for his taste and I have advised him to fit the Forza to counter that issue. We still chat about it on and off - not on fchat. His account also coincides very much with what Felix had told me when i had communcated at length with him by email some months back now, except so far his has thrown no CEL where Felix did say he had had reports of CEL on the odd occasion but it didnt affect tje running. This member has recently told me his friend also has a Kline now and advises do not fit the bung extensions as with those it will throw a CEL. He has removed the bung extensions now and it is now running CEL free. He also has the Novi plug in which so far he has had no need to use on the Pista Kline......bought it mainly for his Speciale. He doesnt post much on fchat nowadays but he may chime in to add to this. I generally dont like quoting others experiences but thought as there is certain misinformation suggesting a superior quality with the unjustifyably more expensive Novitec that i offer the information i was kindly provided with. Anyway i hope this helps those currently sitting on the fence. Both Kline and Novitec are good choices but from what ive been told and shown the Kline looks like it is the pic as it is not only priced more favorably but offers the valves with the proper large x with 2 small mufflers. The materials and construction quality also look absolutely supurb vs the Novi.
Correct. The 100’s definitely throw but the 200’s no. This may also be fuel dependent depending upon country. He recently sent me pics of the bungs not to use if i go ahead with the Kline. He has also driven with a friend who has the Novi and has made comment that the sound is very much the same which again is understandable given the large x is virtually the same shape and when the valves open under throttle the system is straight through anyway. Any real additional volume comes from the cats and tonally if the Inconel is used - which has superior tonality than the stainless from what im told. I believe this as my titanium pipe on my 3rs sounds nicer than ones ive heard which were made of stainless. No doubt the inconel on the Pista is also the pic if one is chasing the best tonality.
If this is in reference to what I posted, I wasn't clear, and I apologize . I was encouraged by a vendor to use the Kline pipes even if I went with the Novitec muffler. No fitment issues known or stated. I do like that they offer 200cel, which is a bonus vs the 100 and the lack of CEL.
I am working on my recording setup for when I pull the trigger and have something to share. Also having a side-by-side with the stock exhaust in the same environment and with the same equipment is needed.
No problem. Just thought it needed to be cleared up and that was my way of doing it. We all know certain vendors will always favor one system over another especially when it pays them to do so. And it's clear Novitec's higher price becomes questionable particularly when looking at the alternate Kline offering which is not only cheaper but looks to have a far more up to date solution in terms of their valved muffled option and, it's in Inconel too. If anything the Novitec product should be significantly cheaper when you look at the glaringly obvious differences between the two. Novitec is just reusing the same design they've used for years now which more or less caters for a number of Ferrari models vs Kline- who is newer to the market - providing a Pista solution which not only provides the large x pipe design (which clearly Novitec subscribes to), but Kline also retains the valves and gives a muffled option with that large X. In comparison Novitec's large X only offers a non valved non muffled version yet for some very strange reason charges more for it. It's clear they are are just charging extra for a name or to feed the resellers....or both. Given the main reason folks change their system to begin with is to optimize the sound, a large X pipe is obviously going to provide the best result tonal wise and even more so if it's in Inconel. So having a valved/ muffled option using this large X design is clearly a much better thought out solution for the car. Even though I've yet to buy a system for my Pista there would be no way known am I ever going to pay more for a lesser product just because of a name or the lovely lilt in a resellers sales spiel. I'm over that crap. And why one is using a heat bandage wrapped over the pipe I have no idea. Ferrari doesn't even use a heat bandage on their own stock system. It would be interesting to compare the welding before the bandage went on too. At least with the Kline you can see the welds and the construction and it's very impressive.
From my experience, anything made in Germany (or Japan) for aftermarket parts is astronomical. Romanian products are priced less I am assuming.
Components are made across the globe these days for reasons mainly to do with labour and manufacturing cost but it doesnt mean the product isnt as good quality as the product made in Germany. Essentially we are talking about a piece of pipe, the engineering behind the design and the expertise of the trades persons welding it all together. We are not talking about the manufacture of a complex Swiss chronometer. In all countries there are good and bad tradespeople so to say the good ones in Germany are better than the good ones in Romania would require evidence to support that. And at this stage going by the design and the quality of the finished product coming out of Kline there is nothing presenting as any form of valid reason to be concerned. If anything i’d be more concerned about what i cant see and with Novitec all the welds appear hidden behind silver frosted heat bandage which will soon lose attraction once it discolours and tarnishes anyway. For me - and i can only speak for myself here - is that what im looking at with the Novitec product represents poor value when comparing the design options, material options and price against the alternate Kline products. It may be a different story if Novitec had a better design or was clearly of superior construction but that is clearly not the case and in fact appears quite the contrary. So as i said before, Novitec would need to be considerably cheaper to even get me to consider putting one on my car especially when there are clearly better and cheaper options available. And if some want to pay more for a name then good luck to them. I mean just look at Ferrari as a well known high end brand. They cant even give you a car that has a decent battery in it least of all being able to charge it properly. And we as Pista owners shouldnt be having to screw around trying to get the car to sound proper especially given what we paid for the thing. So if anyone wants to tell me the name is going to deliver me more for the extra money when everything indicts otherwise then im out. If you pay more you should be getting more - not less.
Now now, I was not implying any inferior manufacturing. Merely a comment from personal experience about pricing. Ever bought a CF piece made by a Japanese tuner? Ferrari prices for BMW parts! As well made as the cheaper parts I could have bought, just priced significantly higher.
It will be good to get your take on Kline quality vs Novitec quality. Any issues with your Lusso exhaust? Shadow seems under the impression that Novitec is of lesser quality, so just curious as I have never seen an actually Novitec exhaust in person.
Thats fine - i understood but was clearing it up for others who may not have. Automotive components - OEM and Aftermarket - is one thing i know a lot about.....without showing my hand.
