Pista Topping Leader Boards once again...

Taking driving lessons.

 

In the US you didnt get a Pista unless you bought a Lusso or you have a strong buying history. In my case, I had to buy a Lusso although I bought some cars from the dealer. I actually did order a Lusso amd then cancelled after thinking about it. It was a very smart move and in the end I got what I wanted. My dealer does not have my exclusive business anymore. They were very short sided.

 

I know for a fact you did not have to buy a Lusso to get a Pista. Some dealers may have wanted it but that was not ferrari policy.

 

A lot of people would have taken that F12TdF deal just to own and keep one ordered to spec. Couldn't see selling it but that's just me.

 

My observations are this;

People really like to talk depreciation or lack of it on car forums. Usually pit one brand against another and hardly give the entire picture. People try to influence others on car forums, social media of which car/brand to align with.

When looking at demand or lack of it then it is important to see who is getting one and what their buying history is. My local ferrari dealer was willing to bypass many, many customers who were higher up the food chain then me to give me a Pista if I leased a Lusso. They would have had at least 100 customers who bought 3 or more brand new Ferrari's in the last ten years. However, I just had to buy one car (which would have made me have 2 from them) to get a Pista. It boggled my mind of how I could all of a sudden move up in front of all those other customers.

The conclusion I made (observations, talking to people) is that many people who have been buying brand new cars have exited. They couldn't stomach the losses on previous purchases for cars they hardly used and/or just got bored with the entire thing.

A big part of this is the hundreds of thousands of dollars of losses that people have incurred in buying/selling cars and playing the game (which is contrary to what you see on these forums about depreciation or lack of it).

 

The dealer was very specific in that they weren't going to give it to a person with an existing TDF allocation or any other customer that they had not given an allocation too. They were primarily looking for a new customer who they felt would be a recurring customer going forward and knew how the system worked.

 

I am sure some of what you say is true but I just think that the dealers are simply whores and will take as much as they can get from you or someone else. They are not loyal, they are looking to make $$$. Some choose to play, others do not. The Pista was/is in high demand and they took advantage of it. It is as simple as this. Basic business principals.

 

Not true.

 

Pista killing it around the Nordschleife.

 

Yes I know of one exception here on Fchat, maybe you know another. This is true for most though.

 

The performance option for the F8 is the regular Pista MPSC2 rubber. The R version might not be the best choice for the F8 with its softer suspension. Have you ever driven a car where the suspension starts to "skip" as it is not stiff enough to cope with the grip of an R compound tyre? It's a bit like a stock 458 or 488 with Trofeo R. It's not really the right tool for the job. Many who have tried, came to realize the chassis needed setup changes to work with the sticky shoes. Add to that your car becomes more temperature sensitive.
As an example of this. A 488 with MPSS and the MPSC2 K1. Having fun on the backroads where it sometimes can be hard to keep the tyres properly hot, means that sometimes the MPSS will have more grip in the lower temp range. Yes, the MPSC2 has more grip than both MPSS and MPS4S, but that is only if you can get them to stay hot. If you live in a place where it is generally hot, this will not be .uch of an issue as the hot roads will help a lot. But up here in northern Europe where temps are all over the place, the MPSS and MPS4S is often king outside of the track.

You probably could get away with MPSC2 R on the track in an F8. But as with the 458 and 488 on R compound shoes, you will more than likely need a bunch of camber dialed in along with stiffer anti-roll tor it to work.

Just some food for thought

 

Indeed. If the chassis can support the grip. The Pista chassis clearly can

 

Excellent points @Il Co-Pilota ! I think it used to be one thing to change the tires to more sticky, but the suspensions have become much more advanced. For example, the 488+ generation of Ferraris will subtly alter damping settings automatically to help you maintain better grip at the rear (and maybe the front too?!)- They design everything for a specific amount of tire grip- I'm sure they allow for a variance, but you wouldn't want to be too far outside of that. In my Pista, I find the MPSC2 (not R!) are great on the road, but are much easier to cool down than the MPS4S that are fitted to my 458 Italia. That tire is the right upgrade from the MPSS on the Italia- its a bit more grip than the SS, but Michelin has dialed in very similar characteristics so it feels like an improvement, and not a trade off. The MPSC2 is a really great tire for the Pista, but I have found there is a noticeable difference in how long the tire takes to warm up and also to retain heat when ambient air temps are around 65F. Below it, its cooling/ gripping less. Above it, it is more.

The Pista is a monster of a car. I think anyone who is waiting for one will be very very pleased- my biased and unscientific opinion is Ferrari delivered a grand slam home run with the Pista!

 

This is why I truly like Porsche GT RS and Mclaren ethos, you can put an R compound tire and they will thank you!

 

The 488 GTB and Pista have different shock absorbers and springs (front and rear) but have same antiroll bars (front and rear) - I mean, not same between front and rear obviously, but same between GTB and Pista; I cannot check what the situation is for the F8.
All the track times of the 488 GTB have been achieved with MPSC2 tyres, but since the cars were provided by Ferrari it's quite possible the set-up was specifically tuned.

 

True. I'm not talking about the MPSC2 not working. I'm talking about the MPSC2 R which is a "hardcore" version of the MPSC2 with R compound rubber and stiffer sidewall. If you order the track tyres for the F8, you get MPSC2 and MPSS is standard if no option is chosen. If you order track tyres for the Pista, you get MPSC2 R with MPSC2 as stock street option.

I'm not saying the 488GTB and F8 can't use the MPSC2 without modifications, because I know first hand the 488 and 458 most certainly can, and so can the F8 I'm sure. But for those who have tried, the super grippy R compound tyres like the Trofeo R etc. have shown it to not work on a stock 458 and 488. If the springs does not getting stiffened up, they need a lot more camber to retain the contact patch in corners. I don't think the anti-roll bar is a huge deal, but it is well proven that the stock 458 and 488 need more camber and stiffer springs, to handle the R compound combined with the stiffer sidewall and more grip. The MPSC2 is great for the 488GTB on track. I will add that even the MPSC2 works quite a bit better on a stock 488 if it gets a bit more camber. They are a bit stiffer in the sidewall than the MPSS, so they can lift a bit on turn-in thus needing a bit more pressure on the tread surface from more camber. I know the Pista and F8 share the anti-roll bar, but are the end links also the same? They are what determines the effect of the bar in the end.

If I should criticise the 488 for anything with MPSC2 rubber at least, it is that it's a wee bit pushy. From what I'm told, the F8 seems to push a bit less than the 488.

 

Indeed. My issue with comparing the Porsche GT RS in this way, is that it is so rough. Yes, it is more track focused, but also a lot more compromised everywhere else. If you set the F8 up to be as rough and hard as the GT3RS for example, it would handle R compound rubber just as well. This is what I think Ferrari does better than anyone. Best of both worlds. The Pista can handle the R compound rubber and just seem to set one track record after another, and at the same time, it is not as compromised as a street car, as the other track focused cars. Just spoke to a relative who owns a GT3RS as well as having Pista experience from test and corse pilota, as he has a Pista Spider coming. He did a large event with McLaren some weeks ago, where he went trough pretty much all of their lineup including the GT4, as he was there to find out if he wanted to race the McLaren GT4 series. He said that the 600LT was the absolute worst car for anything but pure tack use he had ever driven. Even the 720S he said was as rough as the GT3RS. I can accept the 600LT being rough, but the 720S which in fact compete with the F8 segment, GT3RS levels of ride "dis"comfort, is simply way too much for an enjoyable ride that is not track specific.

Everybody is different, that's just my take on it

 

720s rough? It’s super soft like an S class in comfort and hard as an RS in track... I don’t understand what your relative is taking about.

 

Funny enough, Ive heard some people say its too soft and others that it is harsh. After owning 2 of them I think it is just right. The best compromise of any car mentioned. If you want it soft that's an option, a bit stiffer then select track. Honestly, I am really missing my 720's. I wasn't sure I would so I may have to get another.

 

Another I heard from a friend of a friend who heard from their dog about this or that about McLaren.

 

Nope. Just me hearing it from a user, which happens to be both a good track driver and very little brand biased. A lot of info is shared on these boards. Some direct, some second hand. I never tried to pass it on as anything it was not or as my own experience. Simply just relaying info I consider trustworthy.

I will say this. I was very surprised, as it definitely did not fit with my 12C and 650S experiences. But as he was going there, not to confirm some negative perception about McLaren, but rather first and foremost because he was very interested in the GT4 programme, I can't see what he would gain by putting a brand and their cars down, as he actually likes McLaren. He was very impressed with the track performance, but apparently felt something was missing on the road.

I took the liberty to share it and my thoughts on it, in part also because he and I often seem to come to similar conclusions. If I find something to be a certain way about a car, most often he has come to the same or a very similar conclusion. It is not always the case, but often we see things the same way independent of each other regarding cars and driving.

I will refrain from mentioning the 720S again until I have my own experiences with the car.

 

No the 2rs is far from rough. Very compliant/street-able and comfortable excepting being unable to recline the seats. It rides better than my 3rs.2 but without any compromise to handling. It is a very sophisticated chassis. ...next level to the 3rs and you can feel it. I reckon you can tighten up an F8 all you want and it will never deliver the same precision and connection as a 2rs. The controls; steering, shift, brake modulation, chassis balance etc is simply incredible. The Pista is amazing dont get me wrong but the 2rs is more hard wired again. It's like it's connected to your brain.

 

I have had a lot of Porsches and have always felt immediately comfortable behind the wheel. I haven't driven a 2RS but can only imagine its capabilities.

 

I have only one fairly short experience with the 991.1 2RS and agree that it seems a very different animal than the 3RS. I don't have experience with the current RS3.2, but lots with the 991.1 variety. That I do find a bit too rough, especially when fitted with the 918 style race seats. Is it undrivable on the streets? Absolutely not. After about 4-5 hours one does become a bit worn, and if there's another occupant in the car to converse with, the throat can get sore from speaking over the engine. It's a great car for sure, no doubt. But I think that the 2RS does seem to be different in the sense of having that super capable chassis that somehow seems more sophisticated.
The GT3RS is for me in that limbo of a bit too raw for the road, but a bit too soft to race. Not saying it is not track capable because it most certainly is. Just thinking that since they already took it that far down the track day path, why not go all the way.

 

Can't say I've found 3rs.2 tiresome on a long haul at all - i've had many full days in the saddle covering a lot of ground 5 to 600kms at a time and have found the carbon buckets surprisingly comfy and issue free. They definitely have much better cushioning than the Ferrari race seat and even the regular seat for that matter. It's only the high side bolsters that require a bit of negotiating getting in and out but you get used to that. I would agree the ride of the 3 is stiffer than both 488 and Pista but it's not to any point where I'd call it uncomfortable. I've put a centre muffler delete in it as well and ambling around at regular traffic speeds the noise of the engine is no more obtrusive than a 488 or Pista. Its really only when it gets pushed that it gets that real F1 scream up. And yes when that happens for sure that will definitely awaken the wildlife!

Problem with 488 ( and i suspect F8) is even though they are set up to cater more for daily duty with the sound deadening and extra storage etc is that you really can't take them everywhere or park them everywhere anyway due to the attention factor....least of all leave them parked out of sight for very long. So usually the 488 gets left at home and something else is used (like the 3rs, cayenne or toyota), and the Ferrari becomes set aside for drives and track days. So in that sense these types of cars are better set up for fun drives in the wild or track days . My ownership experiences have now evolved where I see more sense and better value in a Pista or 2rs etc because not only can they be daily driven but they are just so much more fun on the drives and track with the better sound and all round connection. There is no way would I take an F8 or 488 over a 2rs as it would eat the pair of them for breakfast in every sense of the word....especially the fun factor. 2rs and Pista are the best cars I've ever owned without question not discounting the 3r, which would be hard pressed keeping up with these two in most situations.