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Pittsburgh Vintage Grand Prix 2014

Discussion in 'Recreations & Non-Period Rebodies' started by George Vosburgh, Jul 20, 2014.

  1. George Vosburgh

    George Vosburgh F1 Rookie

    May 26, 2011
    2,789
    Pittsburgh, PA
    OK Folks, I hate to start a thread but this one I could not resist:

    So we have the PVGP, it's pouring down rain but still Algar shows up with all the new stuff, minus the new Berlinetta and new California. We have an original 330 Series II, an F40, a beautiful 355 Berlinetta, my brand spanken new '77 308 GTB, and a host of 308s,348s and 328s.

    What's the car everyone is looking at?

    A 330 Series I turned into a 250 GTO.

    Nobody knows or cares what it really is. It's a little frustrating!
     
  2. jpbrown

    jpbrown Rookie
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    Nov 2, 2003
    17
    That thing shows up every year, usually accompanied by a misleading placard. You are not the only one disturbed by it.

    By the way, your 308 looked great.
     
  3. 375+

    375+ F1 Veteran
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    Dec 28, 2005
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    The people running the car shows(Il Cortile, etc.) aren't really car people and they don't know what they are doing. They have managed to offend or ignore the serious collectors in the area most of whom choose not to participate.
    To the organizers Cars and Coffee is the standard and that is pretty much what they got(late model Lambo's, replica GT-40's and Cobras, etc.) The hoi polloi can't discern the difference between a bad replica GTO and the real thing and it doesn't matter to them. They think that they are looking at a 50 million dollar car and that is all that registers.

    It's a shame, it could really be a terrific event. Never going to happen.
     
  4. Smiles

    Smiles Moderator
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    That guy really mis-represents his car.

    Which 308 was yours, George?

    Matt
     
  5. George Vosburgh

    George Vosburgh F1 Rookie

    May 26, 2011
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    Pittsburgh, PA
    #5 George Vosburgh, Jul 21, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  6. Smiles

    Smiles Moderator
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    Looks great!
     
  7. singletrack

    singletrack F1 Veteran

    Mar 16, 2011
    5,697
    Pittsburgh, PA
    How did they offend people? What is the problem with the way they do the event? Missed it this year because my car wasn't ready, but curious to know what you are talking about.
     
  8. singletrack

    singletrack F1 Veteran

    Mar 16, 2011
    5,697
    Pittsburgh, PA
    I've seen the GTO replica before. The first time I saw it, and I was just learning Ferraris, I did think it was real. No one was around...it is labeled a GTO I believe no?

    Sorry George; maybe see you at the next cars and coffee?
     
  9. George Vosburgh

    George Vosburgh F1 Rookie

    May 26, 2011
    2,789
    Pittsburgh, PA
    I'm sorry you missed the event, but the weather just sucked on Saturday!
     
  10. Nuovocapo

    Nuovocapo Rookie

    May 23, 2005
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    Pittsburgh
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    Kevin
    Hey Everyone, seems like little hostility here. I thought the event was pretty good this year considering the horrible weather. Remember, we here in Pittsburgh don't have that many GREAT events that have a lot of exotics :( I thought Ricks 250 GTO was cool even though it was a semi replica...(its still made from a Ferrari) I really like that he brought it and his F-40 !! He was really cool to. He let me look inside and even had it running for us in that crappy rain SAT! Lets face it...some of you really rich guys can be DEUCHES to us little guys that only have 1 or 2 older cars and can't yet afford the 250K + exotics.
    I had 2 cars there, my 1989 348 TS and my new Abarth...which by the way is kind of a "Tributo Ferrari" replica if you think about it....but its still an Abarth. AND if ANYONE SHOULD BE PISSED ITS ME FOR GETTING BEAT by a standard Abarth for "Best Abarth" at the Cortile......serriously.....how did I not win that? Just a little light heartedness here guys....I will gladly take the chance to look at all of your guys BEAUTIFUL cars NO MATTER WHAT THEY ARE !! I LOVE THEM ALL....and I hope if we meet in the future you will be nice to me and tell me more about your cars!! EXCEPT if you own a PRIUS.....then.....I really don't care......really.....I'm not impressed.....at all.....buy an old Ferrari.......not a DOOR STOP !!
     
  11. 375+

    375+ F1 Veteran
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    Dec 28, 2005
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    The 275 GTB/C Speciale s/n 6701 that is being offered by RM at Monterey until recently was part of a collection that is within walking distance of Schenley Park. Some of the other cars to have passed through that collection include the Sebring winning Gulf Porsche 917K, Ford GT-40, Shelby 289 and 427 competition cars, Ferrari Nembo Spyder, Lusso, 275 GTB/4 etc. Some significant cars within a 100 mile radius of Pittsburgh include Ferrari 410 Sport, 340 Mexico, 410 Superamerica, various Lusso, 275 variants etc. Why aren't these cars displayed at the Vintage Grand Prix? Because the (volunteer)organizers are not enthusiasts--they participate to promote their businesses not because they are passionate(or knowledgeable) about vintage sports cars. The director of the Il Cortile was actually quoted in the local paper a few years back saying that Enzo Ferrari started his career working for Audi.

    There are some giant vintage race cars in and around the city of Pittsburgh but the organizers have never reached out to those collectors to make them part of the event.
     
  12. bernardmartin

    bernardmartin Rookie

    Jul 24, 2013
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    Bernard Martin
    The 2014 dashcard actually said "1965 Ferrari 330 Series 1 GTO" Last year's dash card contained an error when we merged fields and did indeed NOT indicate that it was a 330. In our haste to print everything in 2013, and put the show together, we indeed made an error last year. As Chad Ensz, of the Ferrari Market Letter told me last year. "Regardless of what anyone says about it being a replica, it's built from an original Ferrari that perhaps cost more to buy than certainly many of the 308's before the conversion"


    We created the Cortile Car Show in 2009 from nothing. We had no local clubs and certainly no local Italian Car Dealers. One of the founders of the Cortile was Walt Spak, who was probably one of the most recognized authorities on the Lancia Marque in North America. Pietro Castiglioni was also instrumental in helping me get the Cortile started and, in fact, made sure that the Cortile was a stopping point for last years "50 Anni di Passione 599". We mourn the loss of both of those men.

    We have a group of judges at the event who have collected Ferrari's for over 50 years, owned the first F1 Car ever sold outside of a Ferrari Employee, Judged at Amelia Island and numerous other Concours events. We where honored to hear Ron Spangler speak at the lunch this past weekend. I am sorry that the caliber of the people putting the show together do not meet your expectations regarding their knowledge of Italian Cars.

    I cannot speak with authority regarding the other 16 car shows at the PVGP but having sat with their leadership in Car Show Meetings for months in advance of the past several years I found them to a wealth of knowledge not only on the car show side but also the racing side.

    The bottom line is that we have grown the event each year and done it all for to raise money for charity all while enjoying wonderful discussions about design and engineering of Italian Macchina.
     
  13. bernardmartin

    bernardmartin Rookie

    Jul 24, 2013
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    Bernard Martin
    Rick and his family are absolutely wonderful people. He was there on Friday to help us set up for the weekend. He's also quite the driver! The Cortile Cup judges watched him take a quick walk over in pouring rain to glance at a curb height from about 1-15 feet away between two trees. He hopped in the F40 and softly placed it over the curb and between the trees very very gravely as we all stood cringing and waiting for a crunch. He cleared everything in less and an inch. As one of the judges said "THAT man drives his cars!" I suppose that's the folks that seem to enjoy the Cortile the most.

    Personally one of my very favorite cars that shows up every year is the '67 330 GT Series II. I love the patina on the Rosso Rubino! And the history behind the car in his family is absolutely wonderful! He called me around 8:30am on Saturday morning and said "Bernie, I'm not calling to tell you I'm not coming. I am. We drive it in the rain all the time and have for years, I just want to know if I can drive on grass or if I have to sit and wait for the rain to stop" I told him, we where parking now. He said "Good, the cars loaded and we're leaving. See you soon!"
     
  14. bernardmartin

    bernardmartin Rookie

    Jul 24, 2013
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    Bernard Martin
    #14 bernardmartin, Jul 22, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2014
    I don't seem to recall that quote any more than I recall saying it. I fear you may be mistaken. I have made several errors in interviews over the year that I will admit to, but, candidly I attribute them to being just plain tired. I get about 4-5 hours of sleep a night on average over the 10 days of PVGP events and I often do tell people that I have difficulty even remembering my close friends names let alone my own by the time the Cortile launches. LOL

    I'm not sure if this is directed to me or not, but I've have NEVER promoted my business via the Cortile. Frankly, given the niche market that I work in with the manufacturing community it's rather difficult to even explain what I do to most laymen without a rather deep knowledge of engineering and production methods.

    I could alway use some more help. I'm totally open to making the show better and would love to sit down some time and listen to your suggestions.
     
  15. singletrack

    singletrack F1 Veteran

    Mar 16, 2011
    5,697
    Pittsburgh, PA
    That seems like all that needed to happen here. No drama is nice : )

    I personally have enjoyed the Cortile when I've been able to attend in the past - never with a Ferrari since I didn't have any until recently.
     
  16. singletrack

    singletrack F1 Veteran

    Mar 16, 2011
    5,697
    Pittsburgh, PA
    I'm aware that there are some amazing cars in the city and know of, I believe, at least one of the collections you are referring to here. I didn't even know about it until recently personally, but I'm not a "collector"; just a driver with a couple cars : )

    Are those owners interested in displaying their collections there do you believe? I think it would be awesome. Maybe the organizers don't know them or haven't had the proper introduction? Sounds like you could help...

    I don't know about the business-first accusation either, but it sounds like Bernard is very open to suggestions so you can give him that feedback.

    For my part, I'll be bringing my 430 Scuderia and restored/modified 308 GTS next year. They may not be exciting enough for you though, but I've seen them make a lot of people smile. ; )
     
  17. ProRallyCodriver

    ProRallyCodriver Formula 3

    Oct 25, 2005
    1,233
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    Dave Shindle
    Are they all Geezers to old to read the interweb? Geez.

    I've attended the Cortile a couple times while there crewing for Italian car racers. Siata, 1960s Alfas and Lancias, Countach, Ferrari 288 GTO racecar (?), vintage racers invited over to display Italian racecars, hardly a "late model Lambo's and replica" fest. Its easy to criticize online. The event is for a great charity, I know what is is like raising a child w/ autism. Step up and help fills the voids and promote into what you want it to be.
     
  18. jpbrown

    jpbrown Rookie
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    Nov 2, 2003
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    The point is that the car is NOT a Series 1 GTO - never was and never will be.
     
  19. bernardmartin

    bernardmartin Rookie

    Jul 24, 2013
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    Bernard Martin
    George, I spoke to several people about the restoration and it is indeed excellent. Immaculate. I looked it over briefly in the rain and was sure it was a contender. Although I do not have ANY say or information regarding the Cortile Cup awards (nor do I EVER want to. EVER.) It was noted that you may want to check the grill configuration on the restoration. You may also want to drive the car onto the field. I don't know the judging criteria but as the PVGP is a racing event, I am suspecting that driving the car plays a role, however small.... :)

    We had several wonderful cars that I was very excited to see on Saturday including a 1936 Fiat 508 Balilla Spyder (the only one in North America) a 1956 Fiat Abarth 750 GT Corsa Competition Coupe (That I have been drooling to see since it arrived a few years ago from England) and a Ferrari 308 in fiberglass, (I saw it Wednesday night and was gawking for quite a while :) But, sadly, the weather was not conducive to driving them to the PVGP for a variety of reasons ( e.g. the original design permits water to leak into the carbs)

    For 2015, I'm really looking forward to some wonderful vehicles as the Fiat Club of America joins us for the "Fiat Freak Out" and makes the Cortile their North American get together!
     
  20. bernardmartin

    bernardmartin Rookie

    Jul 24, 2013
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    Bernard Martin
    Please speak to Microsoft about adapting the the software to maintain the font size on the dash card to include the complete set of information from the field. We pre-print the cards in advance, which we are told is pretty unusual for a Car Show but common for a Concours (which we are not) It takes about 15-18 hours to reformat the online input, clean it up manually, and create the dash cards and then to print at 6 pages a minute on the 'card' weight material. It's completed by a volunteer. Input from participants vary sometimes, as this year, the input has errors ("Ferrarri" or "LAMBORGHINII" << misspelling or all caps). Most times we only get a smidgen of information about the car ("Very Rare, 700 made") in which case we actually do the research and compile the history via online search for the car so the people visiting the PVGP (for free) have the opportunity to learn about the car and appreciate just how special we and the owner feel it is. In some cases, we find, the owner tells us that they didn't know certain aspects of the model that we've identified.

    We then also have to create individual badges for each person. Sadly, we need to do this for entrance to the clubhouse as I had a laptop stolen form there 2 years ago. Hence we need to keep not just the cars but also the art work inside secure.

    In all, there are 4 people that have an impact on the data after it has been cleaned. Reports are then generated for for the entrance (receiving tent) and the registration tent. All from this data. We recognize that not all of the data is always correct but, alas, it is all completed by volunteers.

    Once again, if anyone has ideas on how we can improve I am more than happy to sit down and discuss them. We have, at present, 26 volunteers, mostly car show participants, who pay to get in, making this all happen to help the general public admiring the cars on the show field understand what they are looking at. Many of those folks in the public have not seen ANY Ferrari in person or other marque (Lancia, Abarth, Siata, Iso, Bandini, etc). If we can help them appreciate and respect the cars as we do then we have gained a new fan for the passion that we share here on this forum.

    We're alway looking for a better way. Wanna help? It's all Pro Bono for the kids and we're planning for several years in advance. Join the team! We know we've got room for improvement but only so many hours in the day.
     
  21. Smiles

    Smiles Moderator
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    #21 Smiles, Jul 23, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Here's my 330 a few years ago. Now sold.

    It's clearly on the other side of the road from the Cortile. I think by now all of the Italian cars have been invited in. Thanks to Bernard for his hard work.

    The PVGP is a great event. Organization this year was only OK, and the rain didn't help.

    Matt
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  22. singletrack

    singletrack F1 Veteran

    Mar 16, 2011
    5,697
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Beautiful! I love it - particularly in that color.
     
  23. bernardmartin

    bernardmartin Rookie

    Jul 24, 2013
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    Bernard Martin
    Matt,

    Thank you. We created the Cortile in part to move the Italian Cars from the swampy area where they had been located for many years to the higher ground. I would love some to hear your observations on how we could improve our organization. It's the kind of feedback we look for all the time as we may not even be aware of any 'glitches' until some one points them out.
     
  24. bernardmartin

    bernardmartin Rookie

    Jul 24, 2013
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    Bernard Martin
    I just had the specific dash card information sent to me regarding the car. It reads in part:

    "Accurate 250 GTO body modified by Allegretti in Italy in 1987 and installed on 330 GT 2 + 2 chassis w/ 4-liter, 400 horsepower, V-12 engine. It has the 6 Webber carburetor set up, 4-speed factory transmission, factory-racing differential and proper Watts..."

    The only reason someone would not have known about the car would have been for lack of reading the dash card.
     
  25. bernardmartin

    bernardmartin Rookie

    Jul 24, 2013
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    Bernard Martin
    I suspect that the answer to your question is twofold:

    1. At present the Cortile event is in it's infancy years. I've spoken to many who have bad memories of the old parking area when the Italian Show was part of the European area and few showed up. They have a myriad of things happen from getting stuck in the mud, lack of ground clearance to a general lack of respect amongst fans. We have slowly been combatting this perception for a number of years and is partly why we put a great deal of thought into where cars are staged on the field and how. We allow ample room (if two cars are parked next to each other the rule of thumb is that with the doors open on both cars there should still be adequate room between them for two people, one with a stroller, to walk between the open doors) As an example, when I assisted George in parking his 308, I put in a low public traffic area as his car had just undergone a complete rotisserie restoration and it was alone with LOTS of room around it.

    2. Until such time as the Cortile CAR SHOW adds significant value to a highly collectable car we may not get $35M GTO's. We've had some rather unique gems if your look at our Cortile Cup winners over the past few years. Cortile Cup - The Cortile We are NOT a Concours. We are a Car SHOW. There is a distinction. Concours "wins" can add value to a car. Generally, Concours are much smaller the the Pittsburgh Vintage Grand Prix which garners a public crowd of approximately 250,000 people. Collectors are sometimes gun shy, and rightly so, about showing their cars in that level of PUBLIC.

    I was told early on by one of the Founders of the PVGP "The Grand Prix is not for everyone" That holds true today as much as it did in 1983.

    Most of our Cortile Cup Judges are RETIRED judges from other Concours. Here's a sample of one of our newest judges resume:

    Ault Park Concours – Chief Class Judge
    Boca Raton Concours – Operations Chairman, Board & Committee Member, Procurement, & Selection
    Cavallino Classic – Board Member, Logistics
    Cavallino Sports Sunday Concours – Chief Judge
    Celebration Exotic Car Festival – Chief Class Judge
    Greenwich Concours – Guest Judge
    Hershey, The Elegance – Guest Judge
    Kiawah Motoring Retreat– Chief Class Judge
    Pinehurst Concours – Guest Judge, Procurement & Selection Committee
    Pittsburgh Vintage – Jaguar Concours Guest Judge
    Radnor Hunt Concours – Guest Judge
    St. Michael’s Concours – Chief Class Judge
    Winter Park Concours – Board Member, Procurement & Selection Chairman, Chief Class Judge
    Aston Martin Owners Club Regional Representative, Contributor to Vantage Point Magazine
    British Marque Newspaper Contributor

    As a final note. The Car Show is called the 'Cortile' I'm not sure where the "Il Cortile" name originated but since I am the person who created the show, the name and the logo, I can tell you with quite a bit of confidence that it is called 'Cortile' only.

    Visit us some time in the future. I suspect that you may have some misperceptions and might be surprised and pleased with some of the things we are doing. Each year we try to improve it just a bit more.
     

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