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Planes You would Avoid Flying?

Discussion in 'AviatorChat.com' started by UroTrash, Nov 15, 2010.

  1. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ

    Feb 16, 2003
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    The way things are going they will probably end up with the A330s.
     
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  3. JLF

    JLF Formula 3
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    I dont know, the 787 a350's may be complete by 2016 but who knows?
     
  4. solofast

    solofast Formula 3

    Oct 8, 2007
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    Just happened to be looking in AvLeak, the article is in the October 18th issue on page 47 (ok, I'm behind in my reading, but we're busy spending the government's money).

    In 2008 an A330 crashed on a maintenace flight after the AOA sensors iced upkilling all seven aboard (airplane was washed and the sensors weren't properly protected, so they got wet, then, when flown to altitude they froze, which caused the computer to throw up it's hands). These are the same AOA sensors that caused the other Airbus to touch down at 239 knots, (is there a pattern here or am I just being silly)...

    Normally you would say it was a maintenance issue, but the real problem is that the computer didn't properly handle the outage and the airplane crashed. The computer system was in the "direct law" mode as opposed to "normal law" because the computer didn't have enough information due to the sensor loss. They only lost two sensors, not the three that is generally required for these type of failures. The pilots probably didn't realize that the auto trim was deactivated and the computer couldn't provide stall warning, so when they got close to stall and reapplied power the airplane pitched up and stalled. EASA has issued a band aid reg for "non-revenue" flights to try to fix the issue and appears to be re-evaluating cert standards for warning systems during reconfiguration and they are adding some crew training.

    Yet another example of how the computer software controlling these aircraft isn't very robust (that's a polite engineering way of saying it sucks).
     
  5. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ

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    #79 Spasso, Nov 19, 2010
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2010
    I would think by 2016 but the way things are going not much sooner due to delays and backlog.
    The 787 is having it's own Rolls Royce issues as well.
     
  6. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ

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    #80 Spasso, Nov 19, 2010
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2010
    As far as the icing issue. Am I mistaken that those sensors are heated? I thought that's what the retrofit issue was all about with those?
    Much discussion about them in the A330 Atlantic crash thread.
     
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  8. solofast

    solofast Formula 3

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    Not sure but the implication was that the water in that case got into the guts of the sensor and then froze, but since they weren't in icing conditions, the anti-ice probably wasn't turned on anyway.

    Bottom line is there are a lot of things on these airplanes that are critical, and if they lose things like airspeed or AOA, or ? the computer drops back to a reversionary mode and bad things can happen. If that didn't happen very often it wouldn't be an issue, but it seems to happen often enought that the odds of something bad happening get pretty good.
     
  9. tritone

    tritone F1 Veteran
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    a plane I will avoid like the plague: B-400/800, bombardier-built,. operated by Horizon (and many others I'm sure)

    tiny cabin
    super-crappy seats
    louder than my raceboat
    vibrates like a vibratory tumbler
    hit my shaved head 4x boarding & de-planing (slow learner)
    and sloooooooowwww (3 hours SEA to RNO, with tailwind)
    never again!
     
  10. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Are you talking about the Q400? As turboprops go, it's about as good as they get. In fact, I'm not sure I wouldn't prefer riding on a Q400 over a CRJ.

    3 hours from SEA to RNO? That sounds more like a Q200, which is much slower and smaller than the Q400. I believe Horizon has gotten rid of all their Q200s by now.


     
  11. JLF

    JLF Formula 3
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    Yea thats a badass plane, at least from a pilot standpoint. No doubt id rather ride in that than a P.O.S. 50 seat RJ.
     
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  13. tritone

    tritone F1 Veteran
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    B. Q. Whatever. Not budging. Couldn't get me on another one unless in a pine box. Rather redo my flight from Lopez to Dayton in a Lake amphibian again!
     
  14. Fave

    Fave F1 Rookie
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    Porter Airlines flies Q400 and it was a very nice plane as far as turbo props go.
    Seats nice leather and roomier that any transatlantic flight ive taken. Louder than a jet and bumpier but a nice ride.
    I was surprised to read this.
     
  15. tritone

    tritone F1 Veteran
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    #87 tritone, Nov 22, 2010
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2010
    OK, I give. Must have been a princess and the pea thing.........I apologize to all the Q400 lovers.....Maybe I got the remaining 2 oldest airframes before they get put out to pasture.

    "....seats roomier than any transatlantic flight I've taken....."

    Funny; the seats were my biggest issue: flat, with no padding, needed the seatbelt tight to keep from sliding onto the floosr.
     
  16. Fave

    Fave F1 Rookie
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    I haven't flown as many Q400s as you

    Porter Airline's thing is short flights trying to do things as in the golden days of commercial flying. Stewardesses with the older uniforms, even the little round hat tilted to one side, good food and large leather seats. Hell even their lounge has free computers to use, printers, wifi, cappuccino, drinks snacks etc

    Very nice way to fly.
     
  17. lsanger

    lsanger Rookie

    Nov 15, 2003
    10
    I get nervous when I see or hear an MU-2 fly over as I am afraid it might crash and hit me. Approximately 25% have been in an accident. Hortible fatality record, about 17% of the fleet. IMHO most dangerous twin ever designed.

    Zodiac LSA has many aerodynamic problems. FAA had them all grounded for a while.

    Mini 500 helicopter. I dont even know if there are any still flying.

    Robinson R-44 for post crash fires unless it has the new fuel tank design. Otherwise you better follow Robinson safety notice 40 that tells all occupants to wear nomex suit, gloves, and hood. Comforting right?
     
  18. Need4Spd

    Need4Spd F1 Veteran
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    Feb 24, 2007
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    I hope you guys can help me out. Ever since I was a kid, I've always preferred fixed wing aircraft. Something about rotary "wings" on helicopters just didn't seem right. Give me a Cessna 150 any day but I don't even like going near helicopters. So now my wife is planning a trip to Alaska and wanting to do one of those tours that takes you to a glacier by HELICOPTER and then you go dog sledding. Seems kinda cool, but for the rotary aircraft part. Please tell me there's nothing to worry about. Or, tell me what to ask the pilot/operator for some assurance (like I'll get a straight answer). For example, "When's the last time you had your rotors magnafluxed?"
     
  19. docmirror

    docmirror Formula Junior

    May 6, 2004
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    The accident rate for helicopters is naturally higher than for fixed wing. There are a lot of moving parts, and many of them are critical path parts that cannot be backed up, or made fail safe.

    Comm helicopters have higher inspection and mx requirements, but there is still the factor that there's more to go wrong. It's up to you whether you want to take the increased risk with it, but if I were on vac with the wife, and she wanted to take the flight, I'd suck it up for a few minutes, and go along.
     
  20. --cresko--

    --cresko-- Karting

    Jan 3, 2008
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    #92 --cresko--, Mar 23, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Dash-8's I despise. Sure they are safe and efficient, but the most uncomfortable and loudest aircraft to ride in, not to mention bumpy as hell.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  21. dmark1

    dmark1 F1 World Champ
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    Feb 26, 2008
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    Safest aircraft in the general aviation fleet STATISTICALLY since the SFAR went into effect in 2007. 1 accident in 5 years. Aircraft is VERY safe, the pilots that were not trained in them were not.
     
  22. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    did you do the MU-2 school in Salina, KS? that is my hometown and I know they had a great MU-2 school there. can't remember if I asked you before.
     
  23. dmark1

    dmark1 F1 World Champ
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    Yes, Shawn with Professional Flight Training did my initial.
     
  24. Hannibal308

    Hannibal308 F1 Rookie
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    My planes to avoid: Any plane with two tails, two motors, or two pilots!

    Blue Skies...

    Hannibal
     
  25. Tcar

    Tcar F1 Rookie

    Irresponsible statement... plane is VERY safe, especially if the pilot has taken the time to familiarize with the plane, or taken the class.

    Almost all losses were pilot error...

    It's a great plane.
     
  26. Mule

    Mule F1 Rookie
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    Dick Rutan was an F-100 Super Sabre pilot in Vietnam. He always used to say about the F-4, "Too many engines, and too many crew members."
     
  27. Shane86

    Shane86 Karting

    Dec 2, 2011
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    Correct....most all MU2's lost were due to the airplane getting ahead of the due at the wheel......proven Garret TPE-331 engines....all Jetstreams and Metro's carried that engine...
     
  28. Hannibal308

    Hannibal308 F1 Rookie
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    Agree. The only use for a second pilot is as food if you eject over barren territory!

    Blue Skies...

    Hannibal
     

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