Please explain 599 prices as compared to F12 prices | FerrariChat

Please explain 599 prices as compared to F12 prices

Discussion in '612/599' started by Adamas, Oct 12, 2018.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. Adamas

    Adamas F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 13, 2012
    11,075
    Out of town
    Full Name:
    Mike
    Hello all- I just purchased an F12 and am starting to think about what's next on the horizon . I am thinking about a 599 (preferably an HGTE), but the prices seem really high, at least as compared to the F12 (e.g. I've seen 599 HGTE prices at or above F12 prices).

    Is there anyone who can clue me in as to why this is the case ? I'd be particularly interested from those who own both the 599 and F12 concurrently, or have owned both. I would be extra-particularly (!!) interested in hearing from someone who went from 599 to F12 and back to 599 (Richard at Competizione has informed me that a few of his customers have done just that).

    I have never driven either car.

    Thanks in advance.

    Regards

    Mike
     
    Makuono likes this.
  2. Da Butcher

    Da Butcher Karting

    Jan 9, 2018
    211
    Full Name:
    Jose Marie Alandy
    I haven't driven an F12 yet, but I'll try to take a stab at answering your query. Though I'm surprised that you've said a few 599 HGTE's are selling for higher prices than early F12's. Not the case here in SoCal.

    I drive a 599 and one of the reasons why I like it is because it's relatively analog in comparison to the F12. I would've bought a 575 with the Fiorano handling package which is even more analog than a 599, but I didn't want an engine with rubber timing belts that need mandatory replacement every 3 years (per latest Ferrari recommendation). Meaning to say that with the Mannetino setting at 'Sport' or 'Race', the 599 has less electronic nannies and relies more on the drivers' driving talents especially on curves and turns on a road course. It's a bit more challenging to drive a 599 really, really fast! It will bite given a drivers' wrong input.

    The 599 also has a real trunk with a traditional lid to store a large luggage for a long weekend travel. Even though the F12 has a hatch/lift back window and a storage shelf, it's more difficult to hoist heavy luggage over the F12's rear fenders and end without the risk of scratching the finish. To some, that matters.

    As far as styling is concerned, the 599 is more Ferrari / Pininfarina traditional with classic bulges and a rounded body. Note that all classic Ferraris that are now worth millions all bear that beautifully simplistic Pininfarina / Scaglietti style. The best example being the 250 GTO which Sergio Scalietti designed by merely "eyeballing" its curvature and proportions. The F12, in comparison, is more of a neo-modern "collaboration" between Pininfarina and Ferrari Stilo per Flavio Manzoni with more of the latter's strong influence. Don't get me wrong though, I like the F12's design myself!

    Are there also less 599's produced than F12's?
     
    bmf40 likes this.
  3. George Vosburgh

    George Vosburgh F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Mike, I don't know where you are seeing 599 HGTEs for more or equal in price to the F12s. I have not seen this and I have a hard time believing it. My experience with my 599 is that it is a HUGE amount of engine on the street. The handling package is just that: same exact engine, louder exhaust, better handling at the track at speeds of 120mph and over. My car will never see a track while I own it, so I'm very satisfied with the standard package. It's a great long distance road car with wonderful manners, but when you put your foot down and the lights start coming on across the top of the steering wheel it turns into a raging monster! Quite impressive!
     
  4. Adamas

    Adamas F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 13, 2012
    11,075
    Out of town
    Full Name:
    Mike
    I have recently seen some 2010 HGTEs on Cars.com with asking prices in the low to mid 2s, and one at 299. I understand that these are ask, and not necessarily the prices at which the cars are transacting, but they still seem high, especially now that you can buy '15 F12s with low miles for under 250k and with miles in the 220s. It would seem to me that the top of the [non-GTO] 599 market would be a 2011 high spec, low mile HGTE...but what is a car like that worth ? I'd think it should be *at least* 30k less than a '13 or '14 F12, and you can buy those in the 190-210 range.

    What am I missing ?

    Regards

    Mike
     
  5. amenasce

    amenasce Three Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 17, 2001
    33,014
    Full Name:
    Joe Mansion
    The only reason is rarity. That's all. Very few factory fitted HGTE were made and to collectors, it seems like an HGTE is a different model on its own so that is why it is not dropping in price as a normal 599 would.
     
    robinou30 likes this.
  6. George Vosburgh

    George Vosburgh F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    In the recent Cavallino, 599s HGTE are listed at $170k - $320k, F12s at $250k - $280k. The 320 number has to be for a new car zero miles. The top number on the F12 is a bit surprising.
     
  7. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    37,984
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    Jose- Factory recommended belt change interval on the 575M (and 612) is 5 years, not 3. AN 43847 is a very, very early 575M and predates any US 575Ms.


    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
    rampante550 likes this.
  8. Da Butcher

    Da Butcher Karting

    Jan 9, 2018
    211
    Full Name:
    Jose Marie Alandy
    Hi Taz, I’m familiar with the original service interval of 5 years for 575M/612 cars. However I read somewhere in an official publication that an update to 3 years for timing belt was very recently released (not certain if it was from an expert’s tech advice in Forza magazine?), especially for cars that are exposed to relatively high heat, eg, cars that are tracked?
    I may stand corrected and you’re more knowledgeable since you’ve been driving the classically beautiful 575M for years, but I do recall reading about that change. Hope I can find that article again. Thanks.


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  9. henryr

    henryr Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 10, 2003
    21,650
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    Juan Sánchez Villa-L
    599 asking prices do seem to be high.... manheim sales and asking on the platform are way lower.......
     
  10. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    37,984
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    Jose- Nothing I have seen on reducing the interval.
     
  11. meandmyredcorvette

    meandmyredcorvette Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 15, 2014
    258
    Virginia
    Full Name:
    Dino
    I recently purchased a 599. One of my friends had a 430 Scuderia, 599 GTO and 458 Speciale. He has owned the cream de la cream and he recommended that I go with the 599. He said that the drive is much more engaging than a DCT. He said that he got bored after a while with the DCT as opposed to the single clutch experience. I am extremely pleased with the decision to go with the 599. I own several pre-huracan Lambos and I can tell you that the drive of the 599 is like no other even though I love my gated shifter bulls.
     
    rampante550 and LARRYH like this.
  12. tmario

    tmario Formula Junior

    May 11, 2004
    337
    New York
    Full Name:
    Mario
    I had a 599gto and moved to an f12. I pocketed some coin, but I can tell you that I miss the 599. The f12 is certainly faster, but they are both fast enough to get me in trouble if not handled well. I also like he single clutch action (but no sure how a “regular” 599 would compare on that)

    FWIW, I had the gto for about 5 years and 4000 miles. F12 didn’t last nearly that long
     
    G. Pepper and Makuono like this.
  13. Cobraownr

    Cobraownr Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 6, 2008
    929
    Edgewater, MD
    Full Name:
    Donald Silawsky
    Give Richard Garre at Radcliffe Motorcar Company in Reisterstown (not too far from you) a call (410-517-1681). He has a Rosso Corsa over Cuoio 599 with low miles available.
     
  14. Adamas

    Adamas F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 13, 2012
    11,075
    Out of town
    Full Name:
    Mike
    Thanks for the responses.

    Tazandjan- any thoughts ? I know you're very knowledgeable with regards to the 599.

    Mike
     
  15. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    37,984
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    Mike- I do not keep up with 599 or F12 prices. Personally, I find the 599 more attractive than the F12, but the F12 obviously has higher performance. 599s with GTO wheels and slightly larger tires are close to being equal in handling to the F12.

    Incidentally, not much difference in min shift speed for the 599 HGTE at 85 ms (100 ms for normal 599) and the 599 GTO at 60 ms.
     
    Gershwin and Makuono like this.
  16. Adamas

    Adamas F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 13, 2012
    11,075
    Out of town
    Full Name:
    Mike
    Thank you.

    Mike
     
  17. LightGuy

    LightGuy Three Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 4, 2004
    39,592
    Texas
    Full Name:
    David
    Now an opinion from the peanut gallery.
    To me the 599 is something special in that it is, was and always will be the last front engined V-12 manual shift Ferrari. Yes yes I know that most were F1s. But if you wanted to you could convert it to manual. Ferrari Dallas is doing so.
    A F12 you cant.
    Plus the 599 just looks so elegantly wicked without being absurd like a F12.
    Plus you cant really drive an F12 to its limits on the street. Well neither a 599 but you can get closer.

    Yes only 200 or so HGTEs were built but it seems half the regular 599's on the market have been converted.
    So why the big deal about converting to a manual ?
    THATS where the uniqueness is.
    The very last of the V-12 stick shift front engined monster Ferraris.
    Think about it.

    A 599 GTO at 600K plus ?
    Get a Porsche Carrera GT for the same price.
     
    Adamas likes this.
  18. jorge da cruz

    jorge da cruz Karting

    Sep 4, 2015
    236
    Luanda Angola
    Full Name:
    Jorge Da Cruz
    There are only around 200 HGTE produced so rare and expensive nice buy if you want to make some money

    2009 on

    TOP
     
    Makuono likes this.
  19. jorge da cruz

    jorge da cruz Karting

    Sep 4, 2015
    236
    Luanda Angola
    Full Name:
    Jorge Da Cruz
    Have one from Ferrari Madrid 23 Dec 2009..... Only 18 000 Kilm
    Was from Madrid Ferrari Comercial Director (Cristina)

    Almost Brand new!!!
    If you try me at 250 or 300 000
    Wont sell

    Bougth 139 000€

    Money growing every week better than in the bank or stock market

    There are Only 200 HGTE units produced better ones are 2009-2010 the most valuable ones
     
    Makuono likes this.
  20. Rbtrader

    Rbtrader Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 2, 2003
    228
    Chattanooga, TN
    Full Name:
    Rich Becherer
    I also like the 599 styling relative to the F12. I think historically Pininfarina has always designed the 12 cyl Ferrari's, but I believe that changed when the F12 was designed in house by Ferrari. I think you can tell the difference, and that may support the resale prices of the 599 going forward.
     
  21. Da Butcher

    Da Butcher Karting

    Jan 9, 2018
    211
    Full Name:
    Jose Marie Alandy
    Jorge,

    I'm about to take possession and ownership of a 2011 599 factory HGTE in a couple of weeks. It is Rosso Corsa with beige/black alcantara interior manufactured in May 2011. So HGTE models were produced in 2011 at the end of the 599's production run.

    It'll be a replacement for my previous 2007 GTB which my insurance declared a 'total loss' after a one-car accident after I lost control on soft, granulated dirt that severely ripped off and damaged only the front bumper a bit over a couple months ago. I initially guesstimated about $35-40K in repairs but the insurance evaluator somehow raised the estimate to $130k for OEM parts replacement alone!

    Anyway after renegotiating their initial offer, I ended up with enough funds to get a 5-year newer 599 with a rare HGTE option. All's well that ends well.
     
  22. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Mar 25, 2002
    36,208
    houston/geneva
    Full Name:
    Ross
  23. LightGuy

    LightGuy Three Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 4, 2004
    39,592
    Texas
    Full Name:
    David
    I was window shopping that car ! The best choice on the market IMO the front passenger wheel is curb rashed but other than that a great buy.
     
  24. Da Butcher

    Da Butcher Karting

    Jan 9, 2018
    211
    Full Name:
    Jose Marie Alandy
    Thanks David. I likewise think it's a great buy!

    My wife fell in love with it first time we saw it in person weeks ago. She said it looks much better and newer than our previous one; she wanted it over others we'd seen. Though I originally preferred a lower mileage HGTE, I'm not about to say no to the "neck in my family". So though I'm the "head of the family", smart men recognize the "neck" can move the "head" anywhere it wants to!

    It actually had curb rash on both passenger side wheels but that's being repaired right now, as well as the damaged bottom of the front bumper which indicates it was "parked via Braille", but those are correctable 'cosmetic' issues. It's a one-owner, local (BH / Century City) daily driver, bought and sold at the same FBH dealership. I do appreciate that the original owner spec'd this HGTE with the optional black forward dashboard leather rather than the standard HGTE beige (to match the interior leather) which would have created annoying glare on the windshield. He also spec'd the seats without the sewn "Handling GTE" emblem below the headrest which made the seats look 'cleaner' given the black alcantara / beige leather combo.
     
  25. phil the brit

    phil the brit Formula 3

    Jul 7, 2013
    1,215
    Colchester+Clermont
    Full Name:
    Phil Taylor

    Not sure about your last sentence. I believe yours NOT to be a factory HGTE as that is how the "dealer installed" HGTE kit was done (without the emblem in the seats).
    It is the easiest way to tell the difference between a factory car and a dealer one.
     
    rampante550 likes this.

Share This Page