Please help! 360 Engine failure after main dealer belt change.

What a bummer....
May need an international lawyer??

Best of Luck getting this resolved!!!!!!!

 

Umm... this sounds like a job for one Mr. Brian Crall. "Calling Doctor Crall to the ER, calling doctor Crall to the ER - stat"

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "vernier" on the camshaft, but from how you describe things, I'm wondering if a variator has let go. Either that or someone didn't get the timing set properly on the motor and a valve contacted a piston and then from there, who knows what broke apart and went flying.

From how you describe it, it doesn't sound like it's going to be pretty when you get in there and inspect things.

Ray

 

Given you've only had 100 miles since your major, the dealer quite possibly zipped the car up incorrectly... in which case the service department is liable. I'd have another dealer verify the cause and if you can pinpoint to a non-user flaw, your financial burden should be covered by someone else. Best of luck.

-Joe

 

God that realy sucks man, very sorry to hear that

 

I would have the car shipped back to the UK at the shops expense. If they are reputable and you have only travelled 100 miles it should be a no brainer. May want to have an attorney handy if things get sticky. Id check with the original shop first to see how they respond.

Good luch

 

Ouch...

 

That is about as dumb as it gets.

 

At this point you do not know what happend, I don't know what happened. Start by having a local recognized expert take the car apart far enough that a diagnosis can be made. Once that has been done some educated decisions can be made. If it is related to the prior work get in touch with the prior shop armed with a written diagnosis and see what they suggest.


Until a diagnosis is made no productive conversations can be held with anyone.

 

Ferrari prescribes that the back of the cylinder head should be stamped "VD" to indicate that the variators have been corrected. You might take a quick peek under the engine lid and see if you can see a stamp. It should be just visible if you shine a flash light back there. There was recently a thread where I posted a picture. Let me see if I can find it. Okay, here you go. Message #62:

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=161753&page=4

I'm including a couple of pictures of what things look like in this area for you. As you can see, there are 4 bolts which hold the gear to the variator (#16) and then there is a bushing of some sort (#19) involved as well. Based on what you have said, I think it still could be a variator failure maybe, or perhaps someone didn't tighten down the adjustment bolts on the front of the cam sprocket ? Hard to say. For all you know the cam shaft might have broken in half or something.

I had a case on a Datsun motor once where the cam shaft broke in the middle. The front half was still being turned by the gear, while the back half wasn't. It took me a while to figure out what had happened. I finally pulled the valve cover and when I removed the camshaft to check the top end of the motor, only half the cam shaft came out. I was like "I think we've found the problem!"

As Brian says above, you better get her over to a qualified shop and have someone who knows what they are doing start looking for answers.

Keep us posted. Sorry to hear of your misfortune there.

Ray
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The service campaign from Ferrari (specifically in the technical service bulletin as I recall) mentions that once the job is done, the cylinder heads should be stamped "VD". On my car, it is stamped "VD" on both sides. I also have service records which show the job being done under warranty.

Is it possible that your car had the variators replaced and someone just didn't stamp the heads? Sure, it could happen. As far as someone spotting a possible lack of the job being done while doing the belts. I really don't know. I personally am not a big fan of allowing anyone else to work on my car. Brian Crall (who has already commented on this thread) is really one of the only people I would feel comfortable with having work on my car. I have never actually met Brian, but I have read many of his posts and spoken on the phone with him once or twice. He's not afraid to tell it like it is, even at the risk of hurting someone's delicate sensibilities. In my book, that's generally a sign of a no-nonsense type of individual (e.g. Client Eastwood type, etc.). The time I did speak with Brian, he was very helpful over the phone and was very straight forward with "what was what" regarding work on the car. Anyway, I don't mean for my post to turn into an advertisement for Brian, but I think his advice is sound. Until you really take the car to someone who is competent, then a lot of this is just speculation by a bunch of guys who rarely (if ever) get their hands dirty working on the motor of a 360

BTW, normally (at least here in the USA) you can call any Ferrari dealer and provide your VIN # to the service department and within a few minutes they will check and see if your car has any outstanding campaigns open. You might call Ferrari or a Dealer in your neck of the woods and see what they have to say. Just because someone says "I'm sure your car was done because it's so old", that doesn't exactly give me warm fuzzies about the variators being done. Like I say, on my car, I got the actual paper work to make sure it had been done. Even before I bought the car, the dealer confirmed over the phone what year and month they had done my car. With a little digging, you should be able to get confirmation on your car also I would think.

Bottom line, the car is going to need to end up at a dealer. I would start by finding out which is the best dealer in your area and then go from there.

Ray

 

How difficult is it to remove the inspection panel behind the seats? I've never sat down and figured how exactly how to remove it, but it can't be too difficult? Does anyone know off hand? What holds the rear interior panel in? Maybe with some instruction you can remove the inspection panel behind the seat and peak in there? Doesn't sound like you are going to be getting a lot of sleep tonight

Ray

 

Screw you Brian........"NITWIT" ????

I simply suggested he call the original shop and see what they will do.
100 miles and he has issues after a major?? I think they should own up.

 

If you go to an authorized dealer in Australia and they determine that the failure "could" be a result of your recent maintenance then you should get Ferrari involved. The Australian importer can coordinate through Maranello back to the UK importer and to the dealer. This does not have to be complicated. If you don't get the results you think are appropriate have a local attorney write to the importer with copies to Maranello and the UK.

My experience is Ferrari will see that the right thing will be done.

 

No. You suggested putting it on a boat and shipping it halfway around the world to get it fixed at great expense and assuring the owner is deprived of its use as long as possible. Not to mention jumping right in with legal help. All before anyone has any idea WTF happened.

I stand by my original statement.

My guess is problem solving is not really one of your talents.

Sure wouldn't want you on my survivor team.

 

Mate, am VERY sorry to hear of this!!

Looking at that pic, it looks like the cam gear has 'walked' off the cam/variator.

A quick assumption would be they removed the cam gear to replace the cam seals (as part of the 30K service) and didnt torque/tighten the bolts back up properly.

But, thats just me taking a wild guess. It could be anything of course. Broken bolts, broken cam (unlikely) etc..etc..

I agree with the other guys here, take it to the Ferrari dealer in Perth, Barbagallo's and have them do the job.

Barbagallo Sport
9 Frobisher Street
Osborne Park
Perth WA 6017

Tel: 08 – 9242.4546
Fax: 08 – 9242.5204

They will pull it apart, inspect and hopefully diagnose the failure. Hopefully its nothing major i.e-bent valves!

Seeing as you have already notified the Ferrari dealer that did the work of the problem you have now, hopefully Barbagallo (along with yourself) liase with the UK Ferrari dealer to try and get this problem fixed for you asap!! If it is indeed the Ferrari UK dealers problem. At the moment, all fingers point to them if you ask me. But we will wait and see what happens after Barbagllo's checks it out.

Hopefully its a quick fix for you mate and you are back on the road in no time. And dont stress brother, its a car........it can be fixed!

If there is anything I can do for you, please let me know!

 

I reckon you would pull the seats forward/out, remove the carpet on the 'firewall' and remove the 12 bolts that bolt the cover on.

 

oh **** that sucks big time

IF it were me, what I would do would depend on the situation

IF the work was within the Ferrari dealer network, then I would work with a local Ferrari dealer and make them fix it and stand by their work at their cost, obtaining whatever credits necessary throughout the network. I imagine some ppl are having a good laugh at that comment right about now. will not be easy and may involve some foul language, perhaps more

IF the work was done by someone I really trust knows what they are doing, then I would discuss it with them and prefer to send the car back unless they recommend otherwise. My reasoning is that is someone else takes the car apart then the 'forensics' are lost. The mechanic that performed the work can inspect the damage, if it was 100% their fault then they can warranty their work, if it was something else then you can work out some arrangement that works for both of you. However if they recommend having it locally inspected (and I would ask specifically where they recommend I take it) then I would certainly do it.

IF the work was done by someone I didn't have a lot of experience/confidence with, then I would just cough it up to **** happens, and start over with someone locally.

I realize that others may not agree. Thats just what I would do off the top of my head. Hope it all works out for you.

 

It looks like the 5-8 variator has separated. I have seen this once. Driver just lost power like you did. It was an older variator and before the camp. Snapped where the threads of the variator begin.
The head had to come off on that car ,check all valves cam gears and replace new timing cover.

I agree, get someone with 360 knowledge/experience to look at it.

Good luck

 

Aye, not good!

Is that why the had the recall to replace the cam variators?? The old ones seperate?? Or the bolts snap where the threads of the variator begins??

Did that car in paticular need any valves replaced because of what happened?

 

I just know the car was a 1999 that yes, needed some valves. I don't know exactly why they changed them for the service campaign.

All I know is this:
Timing variators produced from December 2002 to November 2003, must NOT be
used, unless they have a green dot. Each variator shows a code identifying its
production date.
The codes that are not to be used (unless they have a green dot) are the following:
2M December 2002
3A January 2003
3B February 2003
3C March 2003
3D April 2003
3E May 2003
3F June 2003
3G July 2003
3H August 2003
3J September 2003
3K October 2003
3L November 2003