According to pleasure--versus--pain in the a$$! I'm about to pull the trigger on one and I'm just curious what the overall average owner experience is with these cars. I'm looking at a 77 308, carb, no cats, 26k miles, fresh service, well-maintained...... I guess I'm wondering about the rate of stupid breakdowns, even in a well-maintained car.
I had a 78 carb gts and I now have a 83 qv. My carb car was a blast to drive but it was a hate, love, hate, hate relationship. It was a bone stock car down to the air pump and the dual dist. I must have spent about $8000 in 03 on just maintenance. I was so frustrated with the car that I wanted nothing to do with Ferrari's ever again. Late in 03 it started to leak a lot of oil from the heads and that was it. I was not going to spend $10k on engine rebuild. In July of this year my wife an I went to look at a TR that FoBH had and we saw a 83 308 that they had. It just had a engine rebuild and was a very clean example. I paid more then I should have but it was worth every cent. So far I have only put oil in the car and about 4k miles. So far I am very happy with it.
I have 3 308s so you can assume I love the cars. I drive them frequently and have over 112K on one of them. Don't abuse them or beat the hell out of a 28 year old car and you will be fine.
I have owned my 79 308GTS for 14 years, so I must either really love the car, or I am extremely masochistic! These cars DEMAND that you establish a relationship with them, or you will hate them...You must learn their quirks and foibles and be prepared to deal with them in time and money. If you are not mechanically inclined, they will probably frustrate you to no end. If you are mechanically inclined, you will take pleasure in figuring out how to fix those little things that will go wrong with a 25-year-old car. Unless someone has totally bastardized your choice, you can bring it back to usefulness by carefully and systematically going through the systems that cause the most grief-the ignitions and the carburetors. All the other stuff on these cars are just automotive basics--to a very high degree of quality and engineering. You can take no shortcuts, so if you are not prepared for occasional outlays of cash and time, buy something else. If you have some mechanical aptitude and the time to use it, go for it--they are very satisfying once you make the right commitment.
I loved driving my 308 (very agile and tossable) and loved it's looks (esp. w/ lowering and 16" wheels) but hated the constant oil leaks and smelling like exhaust at the end of the ride. Also very limited cabin space, very prone to corrosion (see Paul Neuman's thread), and A/C is mediocre at best. I would get one w/ a TUBI for sure as it changes the sound dramatically.
I guess it all depends on the car itself, and how it was previously cared for....I bought a 78 308 GTS "garage queen" (15k miles) and it required a ton of stuff when first purchased (major service, new coolant hoses and fuel hoses), but was a wonderful, and reliable car. My 328 has been a bit more troublesome...not terrible, but had more stuff go wrong with it...but it did have more miles on it when purchased (29k).
The PO on the 78 was a moron plus the dealer that I bought it from misrepresented the car and I was ferrari stupid and did not get a ppi. I have learned from the past and bought a excellent 83. I absolutly agree that the condition of the car needs to be in the upper 90% with no stories and with all records and books.
I had 3 308's (77,84,85) and 2 328's (87,89). 308's have a lot of charm, especially the carb cars. They are great for those who like to tinker, but as my mechanic once said "they can be needy". 328's are better cars in every way, but do not have the raw charm of an early 308. I think any Fcar over 25 years old is a work in progress, but won't really depreciate any more unless you drive it ton. BTW, I could still be sucked in by just the right 308 GTB myself. Dave
I have an 83QV. Bought it w/ 47K have 60K - 3 1/2 years. The car runs great is fun on back roads as well as long trips. Allways smile when I'm in it. Car is rock solid and have not put anything into it other than what should be done total $10K - A major, new clutch 1st one went to 53K ($5,500) and complete overhaul of the entire suspension, which is recommended at 50K miles, but no one does it($4,000) I like my cars to be perfect. So if you buy one be prepared to put money into it if you want the car to ride and handle like new. Did I have to do thes thing no except obviously the clutch which would have been about $1,700 and I had the rear main seal changed while they were in there - it's all about preventative maitenance. I f you don't work on them yourself, you better be willing to part with some money or don't even bother.
Go for it. I have a 79 GTS and I love it. After the I had the belts done the only other thing I've had to fix, is the alternator. The car runs strong, and is pretty reliable. I've put 500 miles on it in a weekend no problem.
The 308 is a terrific design and tremendously reliable when maintained. The problem is that they can be expensive to maintain if you can't do it yourself. If you can do your own clutch, for example, it will cost you about $500. If you need to pay someone else to do it, you might pay $3,000 or more. Because a lot of owners can't afford to have the car worked on at the local Ferrari shop and can't do the maintenance themselves, the cars get neglected. Once you work through the issues in an old Ferrari (or any old car really) you will have few problems. I have a '77 GTB myself. The carbs, once dialed in, are reliable as anything. For all the whining people do about points and distributors, the fact is that they work fine 99% of the time. The biggest issues with these cars in my opinion is the crappy fusebox/electrics. Once you get those bugs worked out, it's smooth sailing. Buy it! You'll love it. Birdman
my 77 GTB is TOTALLY different from the 78 GTS i had. i really love how different the car is bieng a "B" as opposed to an "S". i really dont like open top cars. the 78 i had featured many new upgrades, some of which i am adding to the GTB (dash rheostat bypass, glass fuse block) and some i am not. today i spent the most time in a ferrari, my ferrari that i ever have. i drove it in traffic. i drove it downtown on the "cruising" strip. i had it on I-16 and I-95 twice. the early carb cars, 75 to 77 are a different animal from the 78 and 79 models. damn i wish i had a euro with dry sump. THEN, I WOULD KEEP IT FOREVER. until i pony up and get a nice carb V12 car, this is heaven. i added the individual K&N aircleaners on my carbs. folks i cannot put into words the sounds the car makes with those air cleaners on!!! i went to a sports grill place today for lunch. a group of Harley riders that frequent the place pulled up behind me and thanked me for cruising along with them on the interstate. the riders and thier female companions said they LOVED the purr of the old ferrari 308. we were driving at a sane speed, it was coincidence we ended up at the same place. i am not trying to slight the 78 or 79 cars, i am just saying expressing my thoughts that the cars are different. has anybody ever seen a 1975 308??? are there any in the USA??? i know they made a few in '75, all vetro-resina ( 'glass) cars. the 308 when warm requires a flair an patience to start. first you settle in, seatbelt, mirrors, wiggle here and there till you fit. turn the key, folks are always watching, listing , at least they were today, i drew a crowd EVERYWHERE i went and parked. by now the pump has primed the carbs, i push the gas to the floor once, turn the key to start, release and hit the pedal one more time as its turning over. car will jump to life, no stumble or backfires. my 78 had all sorts of new steering and supension stuff. this 77 has had the bushings and a few odds and ends done, but it tracks and steers BETTER than the 78 did. the cockpit is silent, save for the carb symphony and the damn cv axle noise i have from the right rear, which will be fixed very soon. my GTS creaked and groaned, but it did not leak water. this GTB is a little babby carb BOXER to me, until i can step up and get one. i want a carb Countach too so ya'll know i am wierd. buy the best 308 you can get, same with any car. a early carb car is different from a late carb car , is different from a QV and then the 328. it depends on what you want , and how much crap you will put up with when the car is pissed off. i think i was talking to my damn car today about half the day. probably explains why i am still single best. *20433*
thank you everybody for your wisdom/input. I drove the car today, felt great. The engine was just tuned, and that is one sweet puppy! I wish the brakes were better, however.... I'll make my final decision Tuesday morning.....!!
I've driven mine like I stole it. I put a HUGE amount of $ into preventive maintainence (all new suspension, brakes, some body work, ignition, emissions stuff.) It was working prior to all that but I figured it was time to get the car prepared for the next 25 years of its life. I have to sort out a small coolant leak next. The electrical is the biggest source of gremlins-but that's all they are-just little gremlins that can be exterminated with a little patience and trouble shooting. Drove it today in the rain. It's easier than hosing it off I don't regret the purchase.
I loved my 1982 308 in many respects. The styling was classic, it ran very well. But to me, the car is "ancient" in many respects. The model started in mid-late 70's - so that's darn near 30 years old. I wasn't that interested in having an "antique" and all the knick-knack problems that come along with it. So I decided I would buy a "modern" Ferrari (348 or newer) or I just wouldn't screw with a Ferrari anymore. Bought a 348 and love it. Though this model has been around since 89, it is still a fairly modern car. People actually ask me quite often if it is "new." As it becomes an "antique", I will be pondering the same move again...probably to a 360.
"I'm about to pull the trigger on one and I'm just curious what the overall average owner experience is with these cars. I'm looking at a 77 308, carb, no cats, 26k miles, fresh service, well-maintained" Just remember, a 77 308 is close to 28 years old. So I'd take well maintained with a grain of salt. Does well maintained include a rebuild of the suspension? All of the bushings in a Ferrari of this age will need to be replaced if they have yet to be done, as well as shocks. All of the hoses in the car will need to be replaced, fuel lines, fuel filler, water, fuel vapor, all of the hoses that you can't see or get to very easily. The 77 308 does not use cats, it uses a thermo-reactor muffler and double smog pumps, chances are the muffler will need replacing soon as well. The fresh service should have also included complete 30k service, cam belts, tensioners, cam seals, valve adjustment, so forth... In all, if you purchase a 308 that has not had any of the basics done, you will be looking at a good chunk of change above purchase price. Or as so many other Ferrari owners do, You could just drive it every other weekend and not do any up keep of the car aside from polishing. A word of advice, always have a PPI done on the car by a qualified experienced Ferrari Tech before you buy a Ferrari.
You're thinking to much. They require attention. Either you will give it to them, or pay someone to do it. It's that simple. And considering how much you're thinking, you really should consider a PPI by someone who is more detached from the seller.
Numerous incidents of sexual foreplay...... 2 or 3 roadside stops by various law enforcement agencies.... Golden Gate Bridge and Yosemite....... Blown headers with resultant fires. fuel pump quits 200 miles from home and after a tow truck carries it back, you find intermittant contact at the partially melted fuse block..... Good friends, good times, frustration and divorce..........ego trippers, meglamaniacs........cranky mechanics and snakeoil salesman at the used car lots...... Parades, hundreds of cheering kids, Art Cars, little girl's birthday parties, art galleries, school visits, or maybe just a shy kid at the grocery store that sits behind the wheel and says VRROOM, VROOM..... Or you could just go buy a new car, there's hundreds of 'em! I think he's gonna get screwed, he's being too careful! LOL! Insure it to the max and buy a gas can full of fuel and maybe a fine cigar.. That'll be your exit strategy, like the the speed boat guys....glub....glub. Heck they catch fire by themselves! Just DON'T carry an extinguisher once you tire of it........ Put that muffler and the pumps in a box and throw it WAY back in the attic.....then forget it, next time you move
carreaper there is a broken 1975 308GTB sitting dust covered in CA somewhere...I've seen pics....silver IIRC. Go to it!!
Hey I'm all ears if Carreaper doesn't want it. I had thought long and hard about that boxer finished gold glass '76 a few months back.
Where do you get the recommendation at 50K for a complete suspension overhaul?? It's not in the maintenance schedule in my car's owners manual. It just so happens that my 308QV is at 52K miles and is indeed getting a suspension overhaul (see this thread but it's because I want to bring the 20-year-old suspension up to date with more modern technology, not because it really needed it due to wear. It's also closer to only $3K total parts at labor for the suspension work, even with the upgrades.
I do love my 308QV (1984 USA model). I've put over 30K miles on it over the last 10 years, including probably about 1500 racetrack miles. I've never regretted the purchase.
I waited 20 years to get my 80 GTS and the first time I was about to drive it, I was terrified the reality wouldn't live up to the dream - it did! More than 2 years later I have absolutely no regrets. There has only been one time when it has 'failed to proceed' and that was the distributor cap coming loose due to an incompetent auto electrician. I did a 3000k trip earlier this year and the only hiccup was fouling of plugs due to incompatible fuel. I think of the car as a tough, but elegant, old lady and treat her accordingly - not like some prissy diva. I don't think they are the car for people who have grown up with modern power steering, ABS, traction control, fuel injection etc or who want to be fastest in a straight line but for me it's everything I want and I won't be parting with mine until I'm too old to be able to struggle in and out! Interestingly too, virtually every person who sees the car, even non-'car' people, loves the shape and many people cannot believe the car is nearly 25 years old.
...or rather, a sultry, mature woman, who knows what she wants. As for my ownership experience after 2 years: - trouble free except for 1 broken speedo-sensor & a slipped CV boot; - great back road and highway cruiser, but not a fun (heavy traffic) daily driver; - awsome sound (carbs); - great attention grabber/ego booster...but don't let it get to your head; - an overall fun car to drive and own.
I love my 84 QV. I'd love it more when I finish the following: Radiator Re-core with new Thermo switch New Thermo Time Switch/Cold Start Valve/WUR Header work, with ceramic coating all the way to the muffler for heat reduction Cat bypass pipe with new O2 and Temp Sender Brighter Hella Headlights New trim around the targa top Aluminum racing pedals new suspension bushings, shocks and springs Engine detailing Etc. Etc. Etc. All of it a labor of love, all of it weekend warrior stuff, none of it 'high-dollar'. Parts are wicked-easy to find, and most everything you can do yourself.
