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Please Shed lights...

Discussion in 'Canada' started by KLZ, Sep 26, 2004.

  1. KLZ

    KLZ Rookie

    Aug 9, 2004
    48
    Toronto, HK
    what could you do to get the dealer buy back your brand new bought 2 months old car, if you find the fender of your car was being repainted before delivery. TIA...
     
  2. Kds

    Kds F1 World Champ

    If you have an issue like this, your best avenue is to go to the provincial licensing board for motor vehicle dealers which in Ontario is called "OMVIC".

    They probably have an ombudsman that resolves complaints where "perceived" breachs of ethics, and/or the purchase contract, are concerned. We have this here in Alberta.

    Now having said that......if the repaint was one that is purely cosmetic in nature, I can't see why you'd have a problem with it. You have absolutely no idea how many cars arrive at port, or in-transit, with minor damage or other flaws that are repaired by the manufacturer or shipping company, and we as dealers don't even know about it....or we figure it out after the fact and have to redo it ourselves.

    Also, in many jurisdictions for example, repairs under $2,000 are not legally required to be divulged to the consumer. I am not saying that this is right or wrong, it's just the way it is.
     
  3. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
    Professional Ferrari Technician Consultant

    Sep 18, 2002
    15,097
    The Cold North
    Full Name:
    Tom
    What he said...The amount of damage to cars that are transported is scary. The guy on the dock unloading the car could care less if he damages it,just as long as it's off the boat in time. Even the guys at the train yards are not the kindest to them either. I would venture a guess that at least 60% of all cars that are delivered to the dealer will require some sort of touch-up or repair.
     
  4. KLZ

    KLZ Rookie

    Aug 9, 2004
    48
    Toronto, HK
    by saying that... you would accept your brand new bought vechile was being repainted before you took delivery ?!?!?!
     
  5. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
    Professional Ferrari Technician Consultant

    Sep 18, 2002
    15,097
    The Cold North
    Full Name:
    Tom
    Well..I definatly would not be happy about it at all. But if the damage is under 2k like KDS said, and it was repaired correctly..then unfortunatly you may have to live with it. BUT...If you point out to the dealer that you know the car has been repaired and the job is not up to snuff then you may be able to get them to redo the job. It's sort of a real grey area...most dealers would be will ing repair the car if asked to do so.
     
  6. Kds

    Kds F1 World Champ

    KLZ....

    If a fender as you stated was repainted after the fact, by the manufacturer, their agent, or a dealer, it can be said that it is "as new" and to specification, suffice as long as no structural or sheet metal damage had occured to it.

    If they replaced a fender and repainted it, that's another story......if they just painted a fender because of a scratch or scuff mark.....it's nothing at all to be concerned about and quite legally they are probably not obligated to inform you.

    Had you asked the salesman and/or your dealer contact about the status of the car prior to delivery and they misrepresented something, then that is an entirely different matter.

    Get them to redo it as Tom suggested......or if it's a real issue with you.......see if they'll swap it for another car in stock (if possible).

    How do you know it was repainted anyways ? I am merely curious.
     
  7. KLZ

    KLZ Rookie

    Aug 9, 2004
    48
    Toronto, HK
    I've let my friend (who use to own a bodyshop) look at. Also, the sales and used car manager has already look at the fender, they've acknowledge the fender has been repainted, now waiting for the regional manager to see the car.
     
  8. Kds

    Kds F1 World Champ

    OK.....it sounds like it was done by the manufacturer before it was shipped to the dealer.

    If there was no replacement of the sheet metal, and it was purely done for cosmetic reasons, I would think that anything which may be forthcoming from them would be based upon "goodwill" more than anything.

    All the best.......
     
  9. NOCAR

    NOCAR Karting

    Nov 5, 2003
    182
    I have seen this a thousand times...get over it.
    It's a car and not some virginal creature that was uncerimoniously deflowered in a pagan ritual.
    What do you think happens at the factory? (any factory)
    They bash, crash and scratch...then quick fix.

    In 1993 I picked up a Continental R for the big boss at the time and we had fun, fun fun in the sun until...Oh my god!! The paintwork was falling in on the trunk (boot,I know) and the front fender (wing,I know) was caving in. CALL THE QUEEN!!
    We all relaxed when we realized that it was not 'factory' and that somebody simply backed it into a post and clipped a wall before delivery. What do you want for 300k CDN? Same thing on the Corniche III and the Jankel Limousine.

    My absolute favorite tid-bit comes when a particular buyer demanded an on-the-hoist inspection for a 2000km 360SP. No sweat, stop everything, chuck it up there, explain that, "you do realize that EVERY car looks like crappola on a hoist correct?" Even one without a mark on it... Imagine my surprise when the customer pointed out scuffing on the undertray and immediately demanded that it be re-painted. Of course the material was never painted in the first place. I said that is 'Factory'...Tony had a cigarette in one hand and dragged it on the floor...have seen it done...but I will be happy to paint the whole underside if it is required.

    It seems to be the belief that angels float the cars to North America wrapped in a blanket of love but reality dictates that it be sent just like any other consumer product. The volume German dealers have nothing but trouble with bumps and dings and the resulting time in the shop. Uh yeah, sorry Mr. customer but we have to do $900 in paint work before delivery. This translates something like, "we have, as a corporation, soiled your daughter."
    Can't blame them for keeping that little secret.

    If it is minor, don't sweat it...it's a car and your factory original finish might have been quick fixed at the same said factory anyway.
     
  10. Kewpie

    Kewpie Formula Junior

    Jun 7, 2004
    597
    canada
    Full Name:
    !
    sorry to hear, but i doubt they will buy back the car for that. but you should fight for it. when it is time to sell it, it will hurt your resale value, not their money that you paid them in full.

    it is unfair for them not to disclose this to you - thinking they can get away without you noticing. if this happen to a $20k car i would be pissed. if this happen to a $200k+ car, i would be really pissed.

    again, i doubt they will buy it back. may be they can offer a resolution.

    (i have a similar problem now with the dealer ordering the wrong options - the salesman was sneaky about it. i should start an entire new thread on this, if he does not resolve it immediately).
     
  11. tjacoby

    tjacoby F1 Rookie

    Nov 1, 2003
    2,856
    Vancouver Canada
    Full Name:
    tj
    I remember mid 70's at a large Ford/Mercury dealing seeing all the Lincoln Town Cars coming in off the transport truck. EVERY ONE was full of bullet holes. lots of bullet holes. they said it was free target practice for the farmers as the open train cars went by, and happened all the time.

    am sure there's lots of great stories out there of transport woes.

    Good luck and let us know how you make out? and what sort of car/dealer it is you're dealing with.
     
  12. ClassicFerrari

    ClassicFerrari F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 7, 2004
    16,798
    Toronto
    Full Name:
    Vasco

    Now THAT, is funny! LOLLLL
     
  13. KLZ

    KLZ Rookie

    Aug 9, 2004
    48
    Toronto, HK
    Sorry, I don't want to disclose the dealer info until I got this resolved. But I really need help on what should I do inorder to have them compensate my loss.
     
  14. NOCAR

    NOCAR Karting

    Nov 5, 2003
    182
    Can you establish what your loss is?
    That will help me answer your question.

    For the record...this has happened to me before...more than once.
    I have to stop ordering black or else pick them up with my eyes closed.
     
  15. KLZ

    KLZ Rookie

    Aug 9, 2004
    48
    Toronto, HK
    Would you please share you cases? Thanks in advance
    Regarding loss, I would see the resale value and I'm uncomfortable with a repainted part on my brand new car.
     
  16. Kds

    Kds F1 World Champ

    KLZ......

    I have been a high end and exotic car salesman and sales manager for the last 16 years here in Calgary. I've pretty much sold them all......with a few marginal exceptions such as an Enzo or a F40/50. But then again....few of us in this industry have anyways.

    Virtually 75% of every high end car has something, somewhere, repainted on it at some point in it's life. That is a fact of life. I repaint bumper covers, fenders, rear quarter panels...etc...when necessary on cars that I am going to resell. There is no diminished value for cosmetic repair.

    You have suffered no loss. Get over it. Again, there is no diminished value in that car if it is merely a cosmetic repair. None whatsoever. In any way shape or form. Am I clear ? If you were whining in my showroom about this and I was the manufacturer's representative I'd ask the dealer to give you your money back and give you a bus pass so you could get home.

    Please don't take offense to my harsh words, for I don't know you personally, as they are merely the by product of my 16 years in this business.

    Gawd man....it's only a car....your daughter has not been deflowered by a biker gang.
     
  17. NOCAR

    NOCAR Karting

    Nov 5, 2003
    182
    My specific cases were all minor...but that depends on your comfort level.
    I suggest that your loss is more related to your own personal feelings of perfection.
    Now, as someone who has trouble shaking the force-fed military training that required things to be straight, parallel to the other, and evenly spaced, I feel qualified to advise you to relax just a notch or two. Just don't touch my stapler or I shall have to re-align the whole desktop! See what I'm getting at?
    If I can handle new vehicles with paintwork, I firmly believe there is hope for everyone just to love one another.
    Paint is a good thing! Paint is love! Paint can be rubbed and rubbed!
    Paint equals good: Scratch equals bad.
    If the quality of the work is below standard then by all means rant away in the showroom but if it is good work then why the discomfort?

    This is far from a perfect example but since I don't have any stories about dismembering any Regional Managers over paintwork, I shall go on...Far from being a dastardly dealer deed, this was an accident. An H2 recently born and still shimmering in the after birth sits in front of my garage. I had the pleasure of watching a 7 year old ride his bike right into the side, resulting in a lovely handlebar stripe down the door and rear quarter. It is true when the racing instructor tells you, "the car will go exactly where you are looking!" So will the bicycle actually. Anyway, as the parents can always have more children I proceeded to...oops, that was the fantasy part...the kid actually got up and said,"wow,that's a BIG scratch!" This will be a great urban survival story to tell his grandkids about.

    Soooo, the truck was fixed and I drove it without any discomfort. My question is...What is the difference from driving with that paintwork from driving with paintwork that you didn't know about? It did not affect the re-sale value at all. Take the free pen from the Regional Manager and be done with it. I have a feeling he will be earning his salary and possibly even asking for a raise.

    For dealers out there, please just disclose things to people and don't take the easy way out.
    There will be much less discomfort in the world.

    Also, would the ^$$@#$% that spraypainted my H2 after I got it back please contact me...I have present for you.
     
  18. Kewpie

    Kewpie Formula Junior

    Jun 7, 2004
    597
    canada
    Full Name:
    !
    now that's a little harsh.
    KLS, you might wanna sell the car to Kds as he sees that there is no diminished value.
     
  19. KLZ

    KLZ Rookie

    Aug 9, 2004
    48
    Toronto, HK
    hahaha... LOL ..... to each of it's own's taste, now God knows what he wants in the future... hahaha
     
  20. Kds

    Kds F1 World Champ

    I've posted a poll in the general section about this issue. Let's see what the board thinks. Maybe the results of that will guide you.

    KLZ.....

    I am glad that you saw the humor in my last sentence. I wish you good luck with getting this issue resolved to whatever your level of satisfaction is. It really seems to me however, to be a matter of non-disclosure that is the real problem here.........and I would suggest that if you are going to push this matter with the regional manager of whatever manufacturer it is that is involved, that you use that approach, as opposed to the diminished value one. I'd hate for you to have "deja vu" when he replies in the same vein to you, like Tbakowsy, NOCAR and I already have.

    Then again.........also remember that certain jurisdictions have laws regarding financial limits as to disclosure ($2,000 and up in BC for example must be disclosed) to protect manufacturer's and dealer's from frivolous and vexatious claims.

    Kewpie.......

    It's not harsh at all....it's reality....and it's just a car, not a Faberge egg.....Ferrari or not.

    Sure...I'd buy the car...painted fender and all....why not ? It's new....isn't it ? Cosmetic repairs are irrelevant.....the biggest problem with them is keeping the bodyshop's work down to the lower standard of the manufacturer's initial work.

    Cheers !!
     
  21. Kds

    Kds F1 World Champ

    KLZ........

    Any news on what happened ?

    The board seems to think by almost 85% that a cosmetic repair does not devalue the car according to the poll I posted.
     
  22. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 16, 2003
    14,612
    Land of Slugs & Moss
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    Han Solo
    Lucky he's not buying a 237,000,000.00 airplane from the company I work for. They have 'paint pickups' all over them.
     
  23. thecarreaper

    thecarreaper F1 World Champ
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    Sep 30, 2003
    15,962
    Savannah
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    I NEED A JOB

    ditto, we fix stuff on new aircraft ALL THE TIME . its big, its outside, stuff happens. as long as no FAA FORM 337 has to be filed, its just another day on the ramp.the manufacturer should have the right to fix stuff before it becomes an issue for the customer, its all about "percieved quality".
     
  24. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 16, 2003
    14,612
    Land of Slugs & Moss
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    Han Solo
    Half the time the customer finds it during the build process so it is ongoing right up until delivery. Fix 20 and another 10 appear.
     
  25. Kds

    Kds F1 World Champ

    KLZ....

    I'll buy your car for what you paid.

    My offer is open until Tuesday, October 26th at 1600 hrs MST.

    PM me here. As this is a public forum, Chris Pfaff may become aware of my offer, therefore, your lawyer should know about it also.

    So much for your diminished value.
     

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