Polish president killed in TU-154 crash

The last Conservative government in Europe removed ,very convenient for Putin for whom Poland is a painful thorn in his side.
How ironic that they were going to attend Katyn Memorial (1941 mass execution by NKVD of some 12k Polish Army officer corp who were prisoners of war in Russia).

 

Ironic was the first thought that popped in my mind when I read the article this morning.

 

Ron Brown

 

Don't worry, Vladimir Putin is taking personal charge!

 

http://www.thekathrynreport.com/ Excellent source of info for accidents/incidents and General Aviation stories - also postings from all news feeds.

 

'cause you know, theres NO conflict of interest there!

 

I think that this terrible tragedy deserves to have the innuendo of conspiracy theory withheld pending the investigation. Apparently, an earlier flight had diverted from Smolensk due to heavy fog. Although advised of the weather situation by ATC, the Polish crew made the decision to land, and this has the appearance of a low-visibility accident.

As far as this being "the last conservative government in Europe removed", that simply isn't so. The presidency in Poland is a largely ceremonial position. The Polish Prime Minister, Donald Tusk, and his cabinet ministers, who were not on board the flight, hold most of the power. This is not meant to minimize the accident, which claimed the lives of many top military and civilian officials.

Yes, the circumstances are terribly ironic.

 

All reports so far indicate this was pilot error with a perfectly functioning aircraft that just went through a major overhaul and update.

Weather was bad and ATC tried to get the pilot to divert, but he refused. A bit different from the way the AF1 crew would have handled it, plus AF1 has a bit better avionics.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

The WSJ is reporting that the crew diverted a few months ago, and the Polish President was furious-- that may have been a factor.

Have you ever heard of AF1 diverting?

 

Don- No, but it would not be advertised. Let me see, divert, or kill the president and half his cabinet? Not too difficult a decision.

If the pilots allowed an amateur, who knows nothing about aviation, to influence an aircraft commander decision, oh well.

Also, there is no comparing the avionics between AF1 and this dinosaur. AF1 is capable of 0/0 landings with little to no risk. This aircraft was not.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

Can AF1 land at 0/0 anywhere, or only on a Cat III runway? I would think AF1 diverting would be big news, given the logistics of managing the President's entourage, helicopters, support equipment, etc.

I agree that it's never a difficult decision in hindsight, but I'm sure the Polish crew would have acted differently had they known the outcome in advance.

I think the Ron Brown accident opened some eyes in the USAF as to the importance of safety versus "completing the mission."

 

That last statement is not quite true.....The aircraft can only land 0/0 into a runway equipped with a Cat III ILS system....EVEN THEN you still have DH and go around point (although it's ridiculously low).

Any ATPs are free to correct or clarify for me here I have a base understanding but don't work on the big stuff day in and out.

 

David- That is true, and the military airfield at which they attempted to land may not have even had an ILS or PAR if it did not have an active unit flying from the base. Like we said, they should have diverted. Nothing should ever push you to make a decision that endangers your aircraft, unless you are in a combat aircraft in a war.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

Given the contingent of press that sits on the back of the plane, it would be well-publicized.

That being said, I cannot remember such an instance.

 

Sounds like a sale for the EVS guys might come out of this. A Max-Viz system is going onto a VIP Boeing I am currently doing.

As for the Polish incident, a very real tragedy.

Jeff

 

Cat IIIC has no DH or RVR criteria. AF1 has stand alone GPS approach capability to very low RNP and can land on any runway suitable in length all by itself in zero zero weather independent of ground based navigation signals.

For Normal planes equipped with autoland the weather criteria is as follows

Cat IIIA DH 100 FT, RVR 150-200 meters
Cat IIIA DH 50 FT, RVR 75-150 meters
Cat IIIC NO DH or RVR requirements

Cat III minima depend on Roll Out Control & Redundancy of the Autopilot and aircraft.
For larger aircraft it is typical that these approaches are under the control of the flight control system with the flight crew providing a supervisory role.

 

Thanks for the info, I only had a general idea. And definitly had no clue that AF1 has totally stand alone GPS approarch in 0/0 capability! That is COOL!

Would LOVE to crawl around the airplane and check out the avionics package, alas it'll never happen

 

Did Max-Viz ever come up with a way to display it on a HUD, or does it still show up on a screen in the panel?

 

Interestingly, the pilot who did divert - and got smoked pretty badly by the Polish President for it -- was later given a medal for _not_ yielding to the President's demands.

 

And, I take it he was not part of the accident crew?

 

Sadly, no.

The article does mention that the pilot took the president's censure pretty hard. Regardless, the medal was well-awarded: as Taz and many others above have noted, a large part of a pilot's job is to make good decisions. He stood by his convictions and did the job well. Not always an easy thing to do.

 

I always felt that I got paid to say "no"-- the flying part was free.

There's nothing like having to tell a celebrity billionaire charter client that we can't depart from Aspen-- when he's watching other guys depart.

"Why can they go and we can't?"

"I don't know what rules they're operating under, I just know our rules, and our rules say WE can't go. Sorry."

All things considered, he took it quite well.

 

That can't be an easy discussion. But there's a great (if understated) lesson in it: your paycheck is for recognizing and avoiding problems.

 

I understand that Max-Viz has made integration with the HUD for the BBJs. The current 737 I am doing does not and will not get HUD. We are going to do the Universal EFI-890R with Vision 1 (synthetic 3D view). The Director of Aviation is not a fan of HUD; he has flown several different BBJs with HUD.

Jeff