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POLL: buy well used F-car or minter?

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by stradman, Mar 22, 2004.

  1. stradman

    stradman Formula 3
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    Jan 8, 2004
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    Stradman
    Just out of interest, I know everyone on this site applauds people using there Fcar as much as possible, but how many people would then actually go out and prefer to purchase one, as opposed to a mint very little usage Fcar. I know all the arguments that a well used car is most probably in better fettle than a garage queen, however would people still prefer to buy, and most probably pay more for a car which, although unblemished, has been hanging out in a garage, seizing up all it's mechanical parts in the process? Just curious how much hypocrisy there actually is out there?(perhaps myself included!).
    If everyone accepted that a well used(but not trashed!) car is a much better prospect then I suppose people wouldnt be afraid of racking up the mileage so much in their car to the detriment of price. I know of a couple of people who don't drive their Fcar as much because they are afraid of the depreciation that high mileage might cause. this is crazy!
    Any thoughts
     
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  3. zjpj

    zjpj F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    5,938
    USA
    Oh, it's total hypocrisy. I am not really on the extreme end of the spectrum, applauding when owners drive their cars in inclement weather or something. But, I do think it's cool when people use their cars a lot. That said, I would want a low mileage car that hadn't been tracked as a buyer. Putting a lot of miles on it, of course, doesn't mean the car is molested. But, I would steer clear of cars with cosmetic issues, and those are usually the cars with many miles.
     
  4. coachi

    coachi Formula 3

    May 1, 2002
    2,108
    SC USA
    If I were buying a new Ferrari today, I will buy a minter...they are all going to require work...and a low mileage (provided it is really a low mileage car) is in my opinion more attractive than a high mileage car. Having said that, I would then drive it and enjoy it. I bought a 2001 Maranello a few months ago with 1350 miles on it, and I have almost triupled its mileage...despite the fact that I have other cars to drive.
     
  5. sherpa23

    sherpa23 F1 Veteran
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    May 28, 2003
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    Bastuna
    I went out and bouught the best 355 that I could find PARTICULARLY from a mechanical standpoint. I wanted one with all the problems addressed, all the maintenance done, fully detailed history, and no stories. Reliability was an important factor in the whole thing. I found exactly what I was looking for.

    I bought a 1997 F355B (from fellow Fchatter Tim Barnett) complete with Challenge Grill, Tubi, Tubi air elements, and the F50/F40 Brembo brake upgrade (all four), and it was 300 miles off the 30k service by Dave Helms (including new valve guides, lifters, etc. and new Goodyear Fioranos, Ferodo brake pads, and some other things) .

    You couldn't tell by looking at it but it had 21,000 miles. It looks like 7,000 miles.

    So you guys can say what you want about hypocrisy, etc. I put my money where my mouth is. I don't want a garage queen and my car is proof that you can have an immaculate Ferrari that is driven. I maintain the car impeccably (oil change last week) and drive it a couple of days a week. It's always cleaned and sits covered in the garage in between uses.

    It's the best purchase that I ever made.

    I've put about 1000 miles on it in 3 months.
     
  6. stradman

    stradman Formula 3
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    I think that everyone should just use their car regularly. I am expecting my stradale in June and I intend to use it daily. Sure the value will probably dive in doing so, but I have found from my experience in the past, that the cars that I used regularly and thrashed regularly were the ones that never gave me any problems, and were always in great shape, not to mention fast! So I intend to do the same in June.
    So everyone, drive em hard and loosen em up!
     
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  8. Wildwarrior

    Wildwarrior Formula Junior

    Mar 26, 2003
    280
    PA
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    Glen Winters
    I have a garage queen 1994- 512 she looks, smells and drives like she just came off the lot.That is the only way I would consider a pre-owned car.With that being said ,I looked at avalible 512s for well over a year and they all looked like, and in some cases ran like older used cars, that had poor to 0
    documentation. I don't drive to work in my Ferrari on a regular basis,nor do I want to, I have other more comfortable vehicles to get me from point
    A to point B. I have fun taking her out once in a while to raise a little hell, or to go on a long fast twisty drive. My 512 is like driving a big fast go cart,she is a total blast to drive for a few hrs at a time. We all have are thing!
     
  9. Mako99

    Mako99 Formula Junior
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    Dec 29, 2003
    454
    I agree, it's like "I can make fun of my brother, but don't YOU make fun of my brother."

    Meaning that I am a prissy little girl when buying a used car, I want them with as few miles as possible, no leather cracks OR creases, no used cigarette tray, etc.

    But once I get them, I'll drive the wheels off. I keep the cars as flawless as possible, but I'll happily rack up miles without a thought.
     
  10. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Apr 28, 2003
    44,836
    Texas!
    Well, IMNSHO, I think the best deal in a used Ferrari is one that has had at least one or two very anal previous owners. Given this, I wouldn't be all that concerned about mileage. Lacking this, I'd walk away unless the price was very right.

    Ferraris is still a very low volume manufacturer. Given the complexity of modern cars, there is no way that Ferrari can fully sort their cars before shipping. For you computer types, they are still Beta cars. It is only after they have been used for a while that the little bs stuff comes to light. Like dash leather skrinking, check engine lights, or, in a 550, motor mounts.

    So, the best deal is one owned by a very anal type who took the car back to the dealer for warranty work for every little thing that went bump in the night. It doesn't matter whether that car has 5,000 miles or 15,000 miles.

    In fact, the biggest risk might be a very low mileage car that is out of warranty, such as a 2000 Maranello with only 1,500 miles. The good Ferrari dealers will still fix those warranty items that should have been flushed out while still under warranty, but you can't count it.

    Either way, there is little doubt that buying used is the way to go financially. Sure the new cars have a warranty, but the depreciation numbers will probably be a lot more that any out-of-pocket warranty costs.

    Dr "I drive em, not love em" Tax
     
  11. sandersja

    sandersja Formula Junior

    Jan 16, 2003
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    John Sanders
    I don't see the supposed advantage to "well-used" high miles cars. I would just as soon have a (documented) virtually new, pristine example. You can easily deal with any mechanical side effects that a low mileage car may have, but you can't undo the look and feel of wear and tear that inevitably comes with driving. I found that just by giving it regular exercise, my seeping clutch seal sorted itself out.

    For those who prefer a 355 over a 360, independent of cost, this is a great time to buy. There are a number of essentially new cars that show up on the market. They do, and should, command a higher price than the average ebay beater. Contrary to the going prices put forth on FChat threads, a single stated opinion of prices can not cover the widening range in car quality, history, and condition.
     
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  13. Mark308GTS

    Mark308GTS Rookie

    Dec 4, 2003
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    Miami
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    Mark Shuman
    I purchased my 1984 308 GTS QV with 66K miles from the original owner who took immaculate care of it and kept all of the records. I was interested in purchasing a car that had been driven and was weary of very low mileage cars because of how easy it is to disconnect the odometer, not to mention the issues that occur when a car sits too long. This car had a bit more miles than I was looking for, but I was impressed with the fact that it had only one owner and all the records. Many people, who don't know cars, think that it's new. Let's face it, if it were just about any other 20 year old car, it would be considered low mileage.
     
  14. DBR328&330

    DBR328&330 Formula Junior

    May 31, 2001
    605
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    Daniel Reese
    My 88 328, although driven lots is still pretty much perfect and I enjoy showing it (98 points at Cavallino). It takes alot of work to keep it this way and the fun factor is diminished somewhat as a result.

    For my next Ferrari (keeping the 328), which I think will be a series 2 330 GT2+2, I will be intentionally looking for a mechanically sound but well patina'd original example so I can drive it anywhere, take the kids etc and not worry about the next scratch. I bet I'll really enjoy this one too. The next owner can restore it....

    Dan
     
  15. stradman

    stradman Formula 3
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    Jan 8, 2004
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    I agree. I think that buying mint breeds extreme paranoia for fear of, as you say, scratching or ruining it. Cars are meant to be driven, not to be worshipped as some flawless diamond, perfect to look at. So what if it has a few "war scars" from everyday driving.
     
  16. vincent355

    vincent355 F1 Veteran
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    Apr 8, 2003
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    A driver does not need to have war scars. Especially if you take care and watch where you're going. Now accidents that's another thing alltogether.

    Vincent.
     
  17. wax

    wax Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Jul 20, 2003
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    Dirty Harry
    Wait 'til some weigh in with thoughts on 60's on down F-Cars.
     
  18. sherpa23

    sherpa23 F1 Veteran
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    May 28, 2003
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    I don't see why anyone would ever buy a well-used beater. That's the worst case. I thought that we were talking about pristine cars with miles on them vs. pristin cars with no miles. It's important to find a car that looks as good as possible but I don't think that is something mutually exclusive to a car with miles on it.

    The best thing is to find an immaculately cared for car that looks like it has very low miles but actually has been driven about 2500-3000 miles per year. And let me offer a clue: you won't find that on eBay. It takes a lot of work to find a car like that. It took me over 6 months and I got lucky because Dave Helms knew this car and turned me onto it.
     
  19. DBR328&330

    DBR328&330 Formula Junior

    May 31, 2001
    605
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    Daniel Reese
    To me an original well cared for car with all its patina (not damage, rust) is much more attractive than a perfectly restored vintage Ferrari. It sets my imagination running wild about where its been who sat their butt in the leather seats etc! With a restored car, all that disappears and the car is sterile. At Cavallino I found myself spending much more time looking at a well used original 250 GTE that the Enzo sitting next to it. As for a contemporary model buy the best one that has been driven regularly.

    Dan
     

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