Poll for a paid FerrariChat site

why not add moderators, which will take some of the house keeping problems out of your hands? there are boards out there with 5 times the membership of this board running very smoothly and turning a profit i am sure. (if a profit is a concern to you). Check out www.corvetteforum.com thats a very well run site with 30-40 sponsors

 

I can't believe how some people whine about $10, yet they're more than willing to use the resources for hours on end for free. I'll gladly pay a fee, just because this is somewhere I spend a lot of time. I've had $10 worth of actual savings/friendships/laughs and merchandise dozens of times over.

If $10 means that much to you, move on. If you say about it isn't about the money, you're fooling yourself. It IS about the money. Chances are you spend more at lunch, but spend more time here. Congratulations, you're cheap.

 

As a Ferrari owner, I would be more than happy to pay any amount asked to keep Ferrari Chat online. The information posted, and in the archives, is invaluable. Even if the annual fee was $100.00 (an amount I would pay), I would save several times that amount in material that was posted. Whenever I need to do some work on the Ferrari, a step by step procedure is always online. Thanks for all of the hard work Rob.

Ken

 

I agree Alex. Rob don't do it brother. This site is the BEST Ferrari forum on the net, period. If I remember correctly you originally started this site so that fellow owners could help each other out with free advice on how to fix their cars. I understand it has become some what of a burden, with all of the new things that are being added. I can only suggest to keep it simple. Leave it as is now. Work out the bugs, then leave it be. If it becomes a pay site it will go down hill. All of us have made so many friends, and some have saved thousands of dollars, because we all help each other out. This site has become a power house because of the rappid growth it has seen, and it has seen that growth because it is FREE! Just last week I met a guy with a yellow 360 spyder and told him about the site and the drives we go on. Every chance I get to tell a fellow Ferrari owner about the site I do. We are a huge bunch of world wide friends on here. I even get made fun of at home and work because I look at the site almost every day. It just wouldn't be the same if I had to pay to have friends, or keep the ones that I have made.

 

My view is different from Rob's is that I think the forum would be all the better if it indeed did have the said 100k+ Ferrari enthusiasts on the internet posting.

The solution to weed out trolls and bad posts is more moderators. It is NOT necessary that they be paid either. I am willing to bet there are 50-100 users who are on here enough who would be willing to moderate for free. That definite should not be an issue.

Rob, same goes to you - I'm sure lots of people would be willing to help you handle the load of tech emails and what not that you get.

Think of it this way - if the forum keeps growing, and the membership say triples, how much more money in advertising will that net you versus cutting the forum membership by a third, getting 10 dollars every 6 months per user, and losing several sponsors?

That being said I would pay, but I still think it is the best idea to keep it free, increase the membership, subsequently increasing the ad revenue, and possibly adding a way for people to contribute/pay for certain features.

 

Glad to see 62% are willing to pay for F-Chat! This is great news and will likely weed-out the Gary Greenes and other trolls of F-Chat! Where can I send my money now? Great news!!!

 

I have been browsing internet forums for a while and in every one of them, the issue of growth and pay-membership comes out sooner or later. There's always a single administrator who's taking too much work and starts to feel the need of bucks for his time spent!

The solution always comes in the shape of Sponsors and more Site Administrators. It's that easy. There are larger sites out there which have done that way and they keep working perfectly.

This just makes me feel a different way about Fchat
It's like "owners don't want us fans among them". So typical in the Ferrari scene

 

Amen, I used to log on about 4 times a day, now I don't feel like visiting at all...maybe once every couple days...

 

Sure I'd pay ..if notrhing else it makes economic sens!
The info you get here manytimes you CAN put a dolloar figure on. How much did it save you in time and money???

 

Add another to the count. What's compelling me is the great people I've come across (like you, John). People like Doody really turn me off, though!

--Dan

 

In theory. In practice, most such business models are now out of business.

First, people will always say they'll pay less than they actually will in situations like this... most want to negotiate down the price. Thus, based on the results, more than 60% will pay... so your number appears baseless.

Second, based on numbers, rather than percentages, 200 people on the board is a safe bet. I'd also bet that would include 95 of the top 100 posters, esp. if you don't count the trolls. That would account for more than what... 80% of the posts? So, your assertion sounds pretty baseless.

Dude, that's so baseless here. I've never seen a site with owners that so welcome and value the non-owners' inputs! The non-owners remind us and allow us to re-live that joy of first ownership and that craving of future ownership... all of that is a fun part of Ferrari ownership. Most of us have a blast giving rides in our Ferraris to "first time I've ever ridden in a Ferrari!" people... and this site's non-owners extend that to an international degree. I think your assertion is way off.

Yes, that is a solution... but not a completely satisfactory one... its really hard for a moderator to manually deal with a troll. Really hard. And its an icky job. In the big scheme of things, its better to avoid the need for a bunch of labor, rather than simply throwing people at the problem. I wouldn't wish that job on anyone.

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I think Rob's suggested model makes a lot of sense. It'll keep away all but the most warped of trolls. The many lurkers can still read all the great Ferrari threads... but won't say anything until they have something really good to say (making it worth it to subscribe).

An alternative that might make sense, if the software supports it, would be to allow reading all threads, but starting one week old. That is, they get somewhat stale information. That'll allow them to see how active those other forums are. That'll allow them to see all the cool events being coordinated in their area. But they'll need to subscribe to really be in the loop and to not miss the things posted "last minute". And for some, it'll be those area forums that are the real draw... the tighter communities formed there will be the big appeal... so, this would let them get pulled in by that. Rob, can the software do that?

To avoid chasing away the low-volume poster from ever giving input, I'd suggest making a shorter subscription option available, making that cost really low. If the target is $10/yr, maybe a $3/3month option. Rob, will the software automate subscription payment completely such that someone can pay that via PayPal in the middle of the night and be immediately able to post whatever? (If not, that'll become the big hurdle to subscriptions as they won't be able to respond to that thread that is enticing them to join.)

And then for those of us who plan to be here a long time, a long-term subscription option that allows us to be bothered as few times as possible with paying and all... if not a lifetime subscription, maybe a decade one.

Just a few ideas, FWIW.

 

No, I'm not comparing Fchat to mitsucars.com or other "official" sites. Evolutionm.net is an independent site for Lancer and Lancer Evolution owners and enthusiasts, which has added areas for other Mitsu products as well. It is not an official Mitsu site. In fact, a lot of Mitsu bashing goes on there. Nasioc.com is the North American Subaru (something) Owner's Club site -- again, independent of the manufacturer.

These sites are similar to FChat, except that the population averages somewhat younger, there are more users, there's more advertising, and one person isn't trying to do it all by himself.

As I recall, the notion to make FChat a pay site was proposed to reduce the number of trolls -- specifically, to keep trolls from rejoining under new aliases once they were kicked off.

But most of the talk now centers around the growth of FChat, and using subscriptions to limit the number of members.

FChat has reached a size where it's unreasonable for one person to handle it. Additional moderators would take the day-to-day forgotten password, thread moving, profile updates and troll management functions off Rob, and let him focus on, say, working the bugs out of the forum software.

FChat has reached a milestone. It can expand, or it can go back. It's Rob's call. But if making the site smaller is the goal, a lot of what people come to FChat for will likely go elsewhere.

The site cannot be made small enough for one person to manage alone, without making it exclusive. And that would change the character of the site in a fundamental way.

It would make FChat a "niche" forum. The open discussion forum we had would be gone. The hard-core posters would remain, but the general population would go elsewhere.

There have been discussions, this week, on the ferrarilist maillist, wondering where all the people went. Many of them came here. But if FChat starts limiting membership, there are other options on the web.

After all, if we wanted an exclusive site, there's always ferrari-talk.

 

I don't think that's the source of the idea... its just one of the benefits... and a number of people have said they'd happily pay just for that benefit alone. And note that such is far more effective than adding moderators.

That's only part of it... as a site grows, the $$$ costs for hosting it with acceptable performance go up dramatically. Rob is actually having to pay his own $$$ for the privilege of doing all the work he does. Adding moderators would reduce his load some, but he will remain heavily loaded. And with a team of moderators comes its own challenges and work. But adding moderators does nothing for all the $$$ costs! I think that's the key issue.

Rob didn't say the goal was to make the site smaller. He said that the goal is to get a payment model that is proportionate to the expense model (proportionate to the number of users). If (big if) that results in use going down somewhat, Rob is okay with that... but that is NOT his goal. His goal is what you said: "It can expand, or it can go back." To keep it moving forward forever, Rob must find a funding model that expands as the use of the site continues to expand. Otherwise Rob will soon be in the poor house and soon after we will all be without FerrariChat.


I wholly disagree with your other points... FerrariChat will not lose its community if it starts charging along the lines that Rob has suggested. It'll lose a few people, but the overall character and content will not change a bit. JMHO.

 

I Am truly surprised by the amount of people not willing to pay > $3.00 a month. I am not very computer - savvy but I do Know quality and can see it here. The new site has way more features tha I would ever use . Rob is to be commended for the work he continues to put into this site.
This is the only board I'm actively involved with. As such , I am willing to pay for quality , but not at the price of exclusivity. Isincerely hope that if we were to go to a paid site----we wouldn't lose too many people. Particularly our younger, less financially independent members.
Hey Rob----possibly a student discount ? Or, how about a sliding scale based upon # of forums a person chooses to have access to. Possibly a different fee scedule based upon ability to post or not post ?
Just some thoughts. Either way it goes, i'm here to stay. Rob, keep up the good work .


Tom

 

as I said in a different thread:

Well I'm only new & don't have a Ferrari so my view probably won't matter but here goes:

Rob - It's your site! do what YOU want with it...

I regularly go to a Forum that posts photoshopped pics www.b3ta.com (not the same I know) but they have over 17k members and just ask for donations which a good 1/3 do so, in return they only get an Icon next to their name.

Personally I like the layout of this, maybe cause I didn't have time to get used to the old one, you'll always get your moaners you do everywhere supermarket queues especially!! But they will get used to it.

I think you've done a great job of it and will continue to visit everyday.

Thankyou and Goodnight.

 

Not necessarily. With additional moderators, each has time to send out warnings, and remove only the unrepentant. Fees only reduce the chance that a user will return once the one moderator has expunged him.

Larger sites operate on advertising revenue alone. A larger site population means more advertising dollars (potentially). But who has time to seek out advertisers or investigate lower cost hosting options, and moderate all the forums, too?

I disagree with the model that the technical advice comes only from a handful of experts. I've participated in a number of auto forums over the years, and the top value of a user community isn't the expert speculation about a problem, but the "Oh, I had that last week!" posts. Even losing 30% of the members will notably reduce the number of "prior experience" answers.

I don't expect to see a massive loss of membership when the first bills arrive. It will more likely happen gradually, as members migrate to a new forum ... giving that moderator the kinds of headaches that Rob's been having.

 

Not to sound like an ass, but i ran a website with my friend for over a year, WHat rob is doing is just maintinence, he didn't create the software and he's not reinventing the wheel. He is moderating a forum, my my friend a few others moderated it and everything went smoothly. We did so because we enjoyed having a place to get together and chat, we didn't ask for money. when we did our routine forum check we just did some housecleaning while we were there. Now Rob is doing a good job of controlling the forum, but there is no need to do everything by himself. Sounds like from reading this thread he can just sit back and put his feet up and plenty of other people will be willing to step up and assume the duties he has taken upon himself for the last few years.

 

I've saved hundreds if not thousands of dollars on ferrarichat since buying my car. Also, thanks to the help of ferrarichat members, I was able to make a good purchase. Of course I would pay.

Re: The new software. This reminds me of something that happened in my old job. We had a LIMS (lab information management system) software system that people just hated. It was such a pain to work with, retreive data, etc. So, we spent tons of money/time to implement one of the newest/best LIMS systems out there. As soon as it was implemented, people began complaining how the old system did things better. You just can't win.

Dom

 

Rob, I would suggest you leave the site free, but offer additional services to the paid subscribers first. That way, you eliminate the downside (potential loss of users) and keep the upside (money coming in). Certainly any "premiere content" (articles, special pricing, etc) should be limited to paid members. If you find this approach doesn't work, then you can easily include general forum access in the subscription benefits later on.

 

What an amazing thing to read! This sort of attitude is just so refreshing. It would be too easy - and I've seen it elsewhere recently - for someone who has created such a thing to be defensive, sullen, megalomaniacal about this thread. You're not taking your ball home with you, you're not throwing your toys out of the pram... Oh, my drink's arrived...

Cheers Rob, Cheers Ferrarichat, and Bravo!

 

I want one of whatever your drinking!

 

This "NEW and IMPROVED" site has a cluttered, childish look and feel. After 1/2 hour on it I feel tired. The cute little icons and useless "Extra Features" buttons all over the place take way too much energy and thinking to be enjoyable. Also, this db driven site may offer better searching and such, but its SLOW!!!

If he starts charging for it, I bet most will simply walk away.

 

Brian,

I think moderators can be very effective in stopping trolls. Sure it might take more work than implementing a fee - but which is better for the community?

If moderators see a troll posting, ban him - easy. Sure he will come back a few times but eventually he is going to get the picture. With 10-15 moderators or even 5-10 there will almost always be someone on to notice someone attempting to cause havoc. They would be swiftly dealt with.