Dont suppose you know where i can get a see through targa top for my 1990 exxy.....i think they are called Saratoga roofs?!
GT4 is great looking by itself. But the Mondial look more Ferrari than the GT4. I like the Mondial regardless of its underrated. With its open top form, it can pass for one the great looking Ferrari....
[OT] every couple months the topic comes up about getting a batch remanufactured, but so far it's been just talk. getting hold of an original is likely impossible, so what's left is a custom job. best place to ask around is Xweb, and here's a Saratoga search to get you started. [/OT] just to be on-topic a bit... saw a great GT4 last week here in adelaide, on O'connell st north adelaide near the cinema. if i wasn't in a hurry i would have stopped to perve better.
I chose the 308 gt4 or the mondial. The 308 is one of the really underrated Ferraris. When they first came out they had awful bumpers and turned down exhausts and were just plain ugly. they were still called dionos because Enzo had said when the 246 came out that it was not a real Ferrari. At that time the pronouncemnt was a real stigma for both cars. In the mid 1970s I was one of the owners of the Ferrari dealership in Mississippi. The only reason we got a dealership was that Algar, then the importer had a warehouse full of Gt4s that they could not sell. They had begun converting them with Ferrari badges, Boxer paint, star wheels and fake 4 tailpipes exiting the rear of the car. Fake, I say, because the exhaust still exited out the botton sides of the faux tail pipes. the bumpers were also changed. this helped sales but when the 308 gtb came out in 1976, gt4s and Dinos were dead in the market. I had a gt4 and enjoyed it very much. It still had the dino badges and wheels. The power train was the same as the gtb and the performance was about the same. The only raps against the gt4 were styling and anemic air conditioning. But the gtb had the same air, only a smaller interior to cool. I had a gtb for 22 years but would like to have a nice gt4, one color with the old Dino wheels, even better if you could find a wide set from the chairs and flares 246. The style has grown on me over the years. I am told the Mondial is nice to drive but I have always felt that both performance and styling were very unexciting- not to insult anyone who loves Mondials, just my opinion. Having owned a Dino, gt4,gtb and now a 355, the performance of both 308s exceed the Dino and styling is a matter of personal opinion. The 355 is in a different league as to performance, which it should be.
How do you know? This is kind of a ridiculous statement unless by "most" you mean the "8". The T will literally blow the doors off of a GT4 and a 3.2 will kick some serious GT4 butt. My QV is far superior in every way to a GT4. It's newer and the technology improved with each year. The GT4's body was designed by Bertone. That is why many think that it doesn't look like a Ferrari, which technically it isn't. It's sort of between a Fiat and a Ferrari and most of them don't have the horsey, which proves my point. It's like saying that a Maserati is a Ferrari because the same dealer sells them. Now that will ruffle some feathers!
SO THE FACT THAT THE GT4 WAS DESIGNED BY BERTONE DOESNT MAKE IT A FERRARI?????? MMMMM....... YOULL HAVE TO EXPLAIN THAT ONE TO ME!
Hmmmm. Do you turn your own wrench? Which one is easier to work on and in turn is more reliable? Which weighs more? Which has more plastic in the interior? I can think of a few serious deficiencies with the mondial in comparison to my GT4. Which has less horsepower? My 75 is smog exempt in CA of all places, I don't think you can say that. The T is a heck of alot more money and is more of a hybrid of the Mondial series, they have serious horsepower no doubt, but 400 more cc's too. The last time I checked, Bertone designed cars are not doing that badly: MIURA, COUNTACH. Who gives a F about the horsey? Ever check the prices on the 246's? That engine was never shared in any Ferrari, but the GT4's 308 engine.....well, the rest is history you might say.
Hey, hey, hey here everybody... Let's calm down here. What's next, Dino vs non-Dino GT4s? They're both great cars, but even as the best mid-engine 2+2s they are squarely from different eras and have pluses and minuses for each. My analogy is one is like red wine and one is like white wine - just depends on you. I think the 'Miracle of the Poll' being so even is a sign from Enzo up above. All 2+2 guys need to stick together here, as we have the best cars for the road of anyone. And being a hybrid, I can say that. best to all, rt
I can't explain something I didn't write. Read my post again. The Bertone design was a departure from the more commonly used Pininfarina. Therefore, it looked different. I did say that it was orginally badged as a Dino, not as a Ferrari. Please explain how this is untrue.
Is turning one's own wrench the measure of a better car? How many owners of Enzo's turn their own wrench? How about reliability? I don't need to tune carbs, therefore my car is easier to work on. My car is not smog exept. In California, any car built after 1975 will have to pass smog. My car is more environmenally friendly, as it burns quite clean. I never attacked the Bertone design studio. I have always thought that the Miura was one of the prettiest designs ever. I think you GT4 owners are just a little sensitive. I never said anything derogatory about the GT4. I just listed some historic facts that you may not like to recognize. What I originally asked of 208GT4 was for him to support his statement that the GT4 is faster and handles better than most Mondials, which I contend is ridiculous. Let's put Michael Schumacher in my stock Mondial '85QV and a stock '75 GT4 and I wager the Mondial is faster around the track. (Even though mine is a cabriolet and the GT4 is a coupe.) Since "most" Mondials are not "8's," I think this would disprove 208GT4's statement that a GT4 is faster and handles better than most Mondials.
"How about reliability? I don't need to tune carbs, therefore my car is easier to work on." Uhhhh, not really. Just a different skill set and different tools. Once either is set right the key is just don't putz with it (unlike me) and they both do fine. As far as reliability best I can tell is that GT4s profit from being much simpler and Mondials profit from more modern technology (except for the @#$%^&* fusebox connectors). I wish my Mondial was lighter like a GT/4. The GT 4 guys would do well with the Mondial's rustproofing and Nikasil bore liners. The list goes on and on. For my next trick, let's compare a 330 GT 2+2 with a 365 GT 2+2. Very similar in concept. best to all Henry Kissinger
Actually, that brings up a good point. The only votes that really count are the ones that voted with their checkbooks. So, if we let this go on for ever, we would end up somewhere around: GT4: 3666 Mondial: 6149 The numbers would be a little lower because cars of both types have been written off. Past owners wouldn't count, because if there was such a strong tie to the car, you'd still have it. Future owners, get your checkbooks ready and go vote!
If you're looking for that raw, '70s ride, with that cool wedgy styling.....the GT/4 is your car (it looks more like a Lambo than a Ferrari, IMHO.....not a bad thing if you're into Lambos, like me A Mondial 3.2 or a T is also cool......I think a black 3.4 or a red/tan t-cab would be a very cool , refined car to have. A 348 motor on a long wheelbase 328 chassis isn't a bad thing... Given that the cars are in different price ranges.....it is tough to make a pick.
Apologies for the late response...but I based my statement on the following: 308 GT4 255bhp 1150kg 0-60 6.4s 2826 built Mondial 8 214bhp 1400kg 0-60 8.6s 700 built Mondial QV 240bhp 1430kg 0-60 7.4s 1774 built Mondial 3.2 270bhp 1400kg 0-60 7.0s 1797 built Mondial T 300bhp 1430kg 0-60 6.3s 1875 built So of a total of 6146 Mondials built, the 308 GT4 was faster than 4271 of them. Even if you include the comparatively slow 208 GT4 (180bhp 0-60 8.0s 840 built) the GT4s are on average faster. As for handling, well I guess that's a matter of taste but I would rather have the extra rawness and feedback of the GT4 in favour of the refinement of the Mondial.
Dan, just wondering (too lazy to look it up) but were all 208s turbo'd ? I know the 2 litre was for Italian tax laws but I'm sure I read that they were turbo'd and 180 seems low for hp as the 2 litre that went into the FIATs had 195hp and they weren't tubo'd. John
thanks Judge, must have been the 208gtb that had turbo then. funny how there was a drop in power from the 2 litre V6 which supposedly had 195hp but the 208gt4 only had 180 ?
The Dino 206 had a 2 litre V6 with 180bhp. The Dino 246 had a 2.4 litre V6 with 195bhp. Hope that answers your question? Dan
