didn't the boys in red just proclaim to the entire planet that the upcoming 599 GTB has "the most powerful production v12-620bhp" just seconds ago? it was in all of the 599's press releases....then lambo pops up with a 640bhp murcielago! same with the f430.the modena finally closes the gap on the gallardo and then the gallardo gets a 20bhp hike. at this rate lambos and ferraris will have either 2 outcomes come the year 2020:- 1)700+bhp "entry models" 2)a fuel/energy/legislation crisis will wipe them both out!
Ferrari's proclamation of "most powerful production V12" is in regards to Ferraris, NOT the entire world. One-upmanship is Lambo's game. Ferrari's always the benchmark. It's been that way forever.
Yup, I do recall the first production car over 200 miles an hour. It was the F40 at 201mph. Then.. the lambo came out with their 202mph Diablo!
even THAT quote i find confusing.doesn't the ferrari ENZO make around 650bhp? and the McLaren F1 made around 630bhp as well.at least lambo didn't (for once) make some stupid claim on bhp AND performance this time.... in fact they say the lp640 has a top speed of "around 210mph";which if you consider a 530bhp diablo roadster easily nudges 208mph is being CONSERVATIVE.seems to me that lambo has really been kept in check by audi and their overly under-quoted performance figures and outputs!
Yeah everyone waits until Ferrari puts their car out and then they do just enough to be in front of it. Congrats to Lambo. It's going to be a great car i'm sure.
Don't get to damn exited about it, both companies have been famous for lying about horsepower. And if you are going to come back about how Lambo doesn't just consult Bob Wallace about it when he was with them. He has great stories to tell about the "Ringers" they used to build for the press. No one considered either the McLaren or the Enzo production cars. What part of that don't you understand? And what is with all this childish B.S. "Mines bigger (faster, better etc etc) than yours anyway. Save it for the public restrooms.
re-read the post.specifically the "...at least lambo didn't (for once) make some stupid claim..." part of my post! aren't manufacturers supposed to state SAE NET horsepower instead of GROSS bhp like in the 60's?i realise some manufacturers UNDER-QUOTE bhp figures(like nissan with their r32,r33,r34 skylines,mitsu EVOs,etc). you don't have to be so *****y about it.i ACTUALLY thought that as long as there are more than 3 cars(excluding prototypes and mules) sold to the public these are still considered PRODUCTION models,albeit coupled with terms like "limited","special",whatever...lighten up man! threads are supposed to be fun!
i think you've got the correct figure.however,the first car that went AGONISINGLY close to 200mph(without ever achieving it) was the mighty PORSCHE 959..it did 199.15mph!!! the diablo is officially recognized as the first SERIES production car to hit 200mph....and was quickly kicked in the b-hind by the 224mph Jag XJ220, the 218mph Bugatti EB110 and of course the (limited to 100pieces)240mph McLaren F1.
who cares whether it goes that fast. Its like it is possible in the U.S... What matters is if the car looks good. And considering what has been coming out from maranello, Lambo clearly again has a winner. As to the thing about producing ringers. Its not only Lamborghini that did it back then. Many super car manufacturers back in those times did the same thing.... Ferrari included. probably just that ex employees didnt disclose it and it just so happens that wallace disclosed it publicly....
No question about it. I just hate myopics that worship at the alter of any manufacturer. They all have or will make junk and most have built some great cars when judged by the standards of the time they were built. We are all very lucky in my opinion to be car guys at this point in history, there are so many really great cars available to us from so many different companies. In my opinion Ferrari is on one of it's cyclical (sp?) downward spirals at least design wise. Three of the best technical people I have ever known in the Ferrari world make up Lamborghini Technical Services and according to them Lambo is doing some good stuff. Lots to choose from, as I said we are lucky.
another thing is about companies lying about hp. That was a time when people didnt sue the company because of false advertisement. Nowadays, there are so many people who sue car manufacturers that they have to be truthful. Remember what happened when the mazda rx-8 came out? It made less power than advertised and got major issues with consumers. So, nowadays, what is advertised is generally fairly accurate or even understated simply to avoid these issues....
The last time these cars were neck and neck, trying to outdo each other, gas prices were high, there was unrest in the Mid-East and Jimmy Carter had alot of opinions about how the world should be run. This is not meant as a political statement, but it seems ironic that these cars tend to bloom in the least nourishing times.
Not U.S. car......And BTW, Car and Driver took a bone Stock 1991 Diablo and ran a 2 way avg of 207mph, Road And Track pitted the F40 against the Diablo in the WOrlds Fastest Cars, and it lost also.
perhaps... but I think it is less likely for lamborghini to do it now that audi is puppeting the company. It then boils down to comparing audi and fiats. Which would report more truthfully? My bet is audi...
Japanese cars like skylines and evos only underquote their bhp figures to comply with the gentlemen's agreement of producing less than 280bhp, so not really a valid comparison to the lambo and ferrari overquoting their bhp
honestly.... who cares... i dont mean to be a jerk about it but imho when it comes down to 20bhp... its not something to mess your pants over ya know? -Thomas
