Speedmoore, What's your experience in the 962 operating cost department? I had a chance to puchase a 962 a few years ago and didn't, but I was interested. I had been told that their operating costs aren't outrageous. So, on a per racing weekend basis, what do you estimate the costs to be? What are the weak points that require maintenance/upgrade? Asking for the weak points of the 962 seems like an oxymoron. CW
First off, it's a (2) mechanic car, so you have the expense of 2 mechanics per day, their room and per diem. As far as track expenses, you have to count preparation beforehand. We feel we can't offer proper full track support unless the car comes to our shop for race prep beforehand. Usually for that car, if it's in good shape, you'll end up bleeding the brakes, full nut & bolt session, maybe changing gear ratios, alignment & cornerweigh, etc. Rule of thumb would be 20-30 hours. Additionally tires for this car 17's or 18's are $475-$525 each. You need at least one extra set of rims if you run the car any amount of time. Fuel is typically $7/gal at the track for the high octane stuff you will need. Transportation to and from the track is between $0.80-$1.00/mile depending upon the distance and price of diesel. Rates are cheaper than hauling widgets across the country typically. Typically, putting it all together including prep, you are looking at about $10k-$15k per weekend.....for a proper effort......if you don't break down or crash the car........that can significantly affect the price. You also should "seriously" think of taking it down to the tub every 12 months (during the off-season) and crack checking everything. Figure on a repaint every 2 years, maybe sooner if you do Daytona & Sebring where they get sandblasted pretty good......to keep them looking tip top. Bottom line is there is not much difference in maintenance from when they raced professionally to now.....parts are harder to come by though. Of course you are not paying for 40 member team and development through the year. Hope that helps. If you like more detail, PM me with your contact info. I also have a finger on the market and where there might be a 62 or two for sale. d
Weak points.....oxymoron? You have to remember Porsche won a ton of races in these cars because of their reliability. I've run several air 962s for 10 to 12 races per year for 2 years each. Same goes for the 962C or Group C "water cars". The water cars are more maintenance in my opinion. Weak points? Turbos.....typically have to be sent out and new cartridges replaced or rebuilt. 1st gear is a bit weak too. It needs to be used as a "pit gear" only and then build the box as a 4 speed using only 2nd through 5th. This is common practice now as it was when they raced. These motors do not like to be over rev'd either. If the car has sat long, you can count on having to go through the fuel system and a good chance the fuel bladder will need replacing. The ECU's need to be service every few years by Porsche Motorsports in Germany. They have diaphrams inside the ECU for the boost controllers on the later models. Engines are typically good for 30-40 race hours just about like every other race engine in the "endurance" class racing. High boost, just cuts down the life and adds cubic dollars to the whole thing.
Thanks, Speedmoore. That's pretty consistent with what I had learned from my due diligence at the time and from my own experiences of ownership and operation. They are fast cars. Reliable and durable, too. All important traits. CW
Speedmoore, Is PNA/Andial still doing work on 962s and producing parts? Thanks, again. Oh, PM on the way. CW
Andial? Not really, maybe a few parts. Porsche Motorsports North America? yes, I hired them at Road America a few weeks back to help me with an ECU/Turbo Controller problem. They have what is left in parts for pretty much the world. They have (two) Group C motors in stock right now priced at about $90k complete Our company also builds all types of Porsche Engines and transmissions (including all race engines up through the GT3R motors) Porsche producing parts NOOOOOO, not for a long time. But, some parts cross over to other race parts or street parts...........However, I have contacts in England that make a few pieces, a company here in the states that makes all the body panels for both Group C and IMSA as well as variants to go to 18" wheels, etc. There are also some aftermarket trans components floating around. We end up copying and improving parts like intercoolers and oilcoolers etc with more modern cores etc. Driveshafts/CVs, shock absorbers, etc. d Turbos.....there are other options besides the factory unabtainable vesions Engine components, other rod, crank, piston, etc. manufacturers as well to suppliment available NOS that PMNA has.
These cars just can't look good when they are 8 " off the ground. I didn't look at all the posts but since I used to work on 962s back in the 80s in IMSA and WEC and we became Worldchampions in 1986, here are some answers in addition to some very good ones already. The 962s in the WEC were all twin K26 turbo cars with the turbos in the sidepods coming right off the header. The IMSA cars due to rules were aircooled cars with a single K36 on it. Looked like something off of a Peterbuilt. The cars were down in power compared to the Euro cars but at 2000lbs anything with 700hp + feels OK to me. Karl
17 Porsche 962C #117 Porsche Type 935/79 F6 4xOHC 2826cc Turbo C1 Brun Motorsport (CH) Closed bodywork Mid-engined Colors: orange Tyres: Michelin Sponsors: Jägermeister Driven by: Thierry Boutsen (B)/Frank Jelinski (D) DNS: Walter Brun (CH) Result: winner - 145 laps (179.978 kph), margin: 0s80 Grid: 1st(2:06.87) Photo updated: 16.5.2004 Photo by: Le Mans Models That brings back memories. I have a belgian (not waffle) newspaper with me in frt. of the Jaegermeister car at the start. We beat Jaguar and the Porsche factory by a fraction of a second. karl
I believe that car ran against us at Road America a few weeks ago. Klaus (can't remember his last name) was running it solo for one of his customers. There were a number of other 62s there.
How is old Mike doing? Tell him Karl Troy said hello. He ran a Vintage race at the Nuerburgring with us back in 1990. I worked for SVRA at the time. Karl
Scarhead I presume....aka Colucci? Last I heard he was plodding along. I have not talked to him since I was down in Jupiter for K.Surmont's funeral in Jan.
No I was talking about Amalfitano. I haven't seen Colucci in years. Actually not since he ran Imsa for some other team after the Busby days. Can't remember. Do you know Gary Cummings? He worked with me at Brun back then. Karl
Don't know, may have met, but I meet so many. You ever freelance? I sometimes need an extra 962 or other GTP experienced lead mechanic. If so, PM me all you contact info. BTW, those were the days...............sure wish they were back.........US road racing has never been the same since the banning of GTP........and the demise of IMSA/PSCR/or whatever you want to call it now.....a mess....ALMS vs GrandAm.....neither come close to the grandeur of Camel GT and Light....
Actually, I was crewchief on the Ex-Champion Lola Porsche. I have worked with Pegasus Racing since '93. I'll send you my info. Yeah, IMSA was the ****. I have worked on Daytona prototypes and it's just not the same, besides they are the ugliest thing ever.
Oh cool, then you know Brad Kettler, Dave Miraj, Mike Peters and the gang.....know them all well. Rene Bolders back in the shop? Great fabricator, helped him get his green card. It's great to see Dave finally gettings some sweet victories like Lemans.....he's been out there for a LONG time and had many hard years. BTW, I think we may have met before. I've been out of endurance pro racing for a while. Was crew chief for Jim Mathews in a Riley Scott Ford freelancing for Colucci. Team Mgr for Racer's Group.......Before that was team mgr/crewchief for EXXON Porsche GTS2 team of Vargo. Lastly was in speedvision GT taking care of Kitchak for a few years.......moved into vintage race support and had a host of clients in HSR/SVRA/BRIC, etc. I missed the 962 days just barely. I was engineer at Norwood Ferrari during those days with James Patterson and gang going to Bonneville, Ft. Stockton....making the P4's and GTOs, etc. But I used to go to the IMSA races to watch friends like Price Cobb, etc. To have the budget of back then into today to run in ALMS, that would be the ticket. At least now, we get to keep old IMSA cars running hard and frankly sometimes the racing is just as hard as the old days. Just wish NASCAR had not have sucked up all the sponsors. d
