Porsche Prices

Talked to an independent 911 specialist dealer last week. His experience is that the no-stories air cooled are still in tight supply. Coupes and targas are hard to find.

For new ones, the salesperson at Porsche Palm Springs mentioned they are still desperately short of cars. Prices on the showroom floor for cherry 991/992 variants are nosebleed high. Supply hasn’t caught up yet.

My personal view is the market for post-1973 911s has plateaued. There’s no probable upside at this point.

Interesting side note: I had an email exchange with a very respected restorer in the northeast two weeks ago, and he commented that even the once-hated Sportomatics are having a resurgence. My takeaway is that originality is the long term winner, and that backdating may have run its course.


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Maybe a bit of supporting evidence: talking with a local-ish dealer, they suggested that they're seeing the market for modern stuff slow down. That hasn't yet translated to significant price drops, more inventory sitting at current prices.

Whether or not the prices will drop remains to be seen.

I think there will still be a premium for the no-stories, one-owner type cars. but I also think that Jon is right above, that we've seen the top of market (for now)

 

I thought this sale was pretty impressive last week:

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1976-porsche-911s-42/

Great car, engaged seller, great owner... but I think a record price for a mid-year (74-77) 911. So prices are still plenty high.

 

That is impressive, for one of the worst model years, but:

1. It’s a seriously well-sorted 911, apparently with none of the rust and engine issues of the typical 2.7, and

2. It’s a classic car in a classic color in the iconic Targa configuration. I don’t think we can extrapolate pricing trends from this to 991/992-era 911. If you want the style, $78K doesn’t seem that steep. It’s a lot of cool for generic BMW money.


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It had a lot going for it (and by the way, I love my 2.7 911S), but I still think that achieving a price like that, for that car, is a sign that prices are still pretty crazy.

On the other hand, the early 930 (documented first 930 in Canada, with pictures of it coming off the airplane when new) for $127k seemed like a bargain.

 

$127K definitely sounds like a deal. The 930 is already an icon and a classic. No crystal ball here, but if prices soften on the G-series I’d still expect 930s to hold value.


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Bought my 2018 Panamera 4s off lease for $56k and was offered 73k in a trade for a Taycan. Crazy.

 

You can see “price reduced” if you search auto trader, etc. for the 991.2 tourings and 718 Cayman GT4s/Boxster Spyders and the cars are sitting. Demand appears to be softening whether sellers lower prices/take lower offers remains to be seen.

 

Well no softening on 911’s and 718’s in my area (SoCal). My dealer can’t get any vehicles to come close to the demand. Lots of used cars and “not for sale” cars in the show room and my dealer is part of several dealership company who usually has lots of cars.. The new “for sale” cars are still at nose bleed markups except Macon’s and base Cayenne’s which have small markups.

 

Describes the situation here in the Palm Springs area…


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The 997 prices are the ones I really can't understand. I get it for the 997.2, GT cars, Turbos, etc... but even the early 997.1 entry level models are $60K+. I have seen a few early C2S cars with asking prices approaching $100K.

 

True, but would you rather pay $100k for a new Jeep Wagoneer or have a Porsche 997 for $60k? (Referring to the post above)

The original MSRP certainly applies, but the reality is $60k doesn’t buy anything new and interesting. A 997 is interesting and likely won’t depreciate. I suspect that explains some of the price persistence.


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$100K for a Wagoneer is also stupid. My comment is more that the 997s have doubled or more in the last 2 years. A lot of the 997 is based off the 996 but 3x the price. Early 997s may be more expensive than 991s soon.

Also I wasn't trying to compare the 997 to anything new. They are approaching 20 years old for the early ones.

 

Agreed, it is stupid.

Regarding 997 prices, my opinion is that 911 buyers are looking at all the newer (water-cooled) cars and they like the proportions and character of the 997 more than the 996 (questionable aesthetics, interior and mechanical quality) and the later 991/992, which are great cars but different than the classic 911 sports car: They don’t feel like they could do Le Mans and then the office on Monday. More grand tourer than sports car.

That’s why I think it doesn’t work to lump 911s into one market point. If I had to give up the air-cooled classic 911s for a water-cooled modern 911, the 997 would far and away be my first choice. Far prettier, and the interiors are upscale, where the 996 always felt low rent and all had the IMS stigma.

Porsche probably isn’t going to downsize the 911 in the future, so we’re left to compete for existing models. Just as 328s bring more than the quicker 348, I can see why a 997 has its devotees. (And a good 993 or 964 can bring 3x or 4x what a regular production 996 does… all day.)

TL;DR: 997 is 3x as desirable as the 996.



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You hurt the feelings of my 996 lol

I mostly agree with you. I am not sure I agree on the quality of the interior being that much better with the 997. I have so many with paint peeling off of switches and surfaces, leather that looks like crap, etc. Options on both generations make a huge difference.

The thing that I find funny is how everyone hated on the 996 when it came out for being too big and heavy compared to the air cooled cars. The current Cayman is the same size and weight as a 996.

 

It wasn’t that long ago the 964 was the forgotten generation, so perspectives and prices can change.




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Those 996s (other than the turbo) are potential time grenades ... the piston bores will eventually get scored and require a total rebuild. I believe the early 997 suffers from that as well ... people worry about the IMS on those cars and rightly so but at least there is a preventative fix for that.

https://flat6innovations.com/cylinder-bore-scoring/

Anyone know how the current market is on the Macan?

 

Yup. That’s why I have a 997.1S. I couldn’t really find a .2 manual when I was looking, and I had a brand new Cayman T that I loved except for the fact that my little guy couldn’t get in the back. I also missed the 911 feel. My dealer had my guards ‘07 sitting there with 29k miles, and it’s a super nice example that can be used. So, being well aware of what to look for and not being the least bit concerned about IMS and all the other “boogey men” people like to throw at .1 cars, I said “Gimmie!”

The 997 is a lot like a 993 in some ways - modern but still in touch with the roots of the model, fast enough, engaging, and they’re pretty. I have found all of what Jon mentioned to be 100% spot on regarding the newer models. They’re comfy and fast, but my 997 is one of the most communicative cars I’ve had, similar (though not the same) to my old 348 in terms of the feedback level. Oddly, a bit more so than my 993, but I chalk that up to the 997 having sport mode and the 993 having the very sweet but a little soft Moton shocks.

That said, I’m probably dropping a bid on a 993 very soon…knowing full well that I will likely be obliterated by BAT nonsense. What I’m looking at is not a $100k car, but I have a feeling that’s where it’s heading.

Love me some 993, even if it is maybe a bit against my better judgement

 

This is true! In fact some buyers are already seeking the early 996 with headlight/turn signal combos. Those were poopoo-ed for years!

So were Dinos and 348s…I’ll go on ad nauseum about the virtues of the latter and no longer feel like the kid with the dunce cap in the corner.

 

The problem with 986/996s — and 348s — is that their mechanical failures can be addressed with a bit of check writing or serviceable Visa card, but their interiors remain subpar. A properly restored or time capsule 356 or 911/964 feels like the sports car Rolex would have made. The quality is of another era. My 308 felt similarly substantial.

The 986/996 just don’t feel expensive to me. Kind of like the Jaguar XJ-S never really replaced the E-Type. Yeah it’s the low slung Jaguar, but I don’t want the badge THAT badly… and as discussed the 997.2 really was/is very good. Different, but undoubtedly a Porsche from top to bottom.

The 993 isn’t my personal favorite 911, but I had one and I completely understand why it is coveted and expensive. It feels like a top of the line German car, honed to perfection. No one builds cars this well anymore. Even Porsche, if you believe the latest JD Power survey.

A long way of saying… 996s probably will rise in value, but I’d expect them to lag the 993 and 997 indefinitely.


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Let's hope they don't rise too much because some of us look at 996s and reflexively think "I would absolutely track that"

 

I agree. While I have appreciated the drive of the 996s I have experienced, the overall feeling of solidity that you get from an aircooled car isn’t there. Some of it is mental (WHERE ARE MY WINDOW FRAMES?!?! ), but the interior never feels “right” to me. Not terrible, but I say that having had a C6 and a C5 at one point, haha!

 

I think you’re good. I’m thinking it will be a cult following, which as we have seen rarely equates to massive upticks.

Then again…we’ve been wrong before, haven’t we?

 

On pretty much a weekly basis!