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Portuguese GRAND PRIX pre race thread

Discussion in 'F1' started by Nembo1777, Oct 17, 2020 at 1:29 PM.

  1. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 Veteran
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    This circuit, Portimao, obviously totally new to F1 and to almost all the drivers, is extremely interesting and will be very challenging to learn: one of the top bike racing riders said he usually learns a track in a few laps but found himself riding his road motorcycle a whole afternoon to really understand its subtleties, I think the drivers will find it a true challenge to learn with a lot of dips, blind brows and long curves as well as braking while cornering. The simulator time won't suffice.

    But first some history: the first GP of Portugal for F1 was held in Porto in 1958 on a street course that went by the water front. The tram rails caused some lurid moments.

    Here is a video I found recently, quite poor but it exists, a very rare historical document:



    In 1959 they raced around the Monsanto park just outside Lisbon, this video is much better with English commentary:

     
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  3. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

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  4. 375+

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    Fantastic, thank you Marc.
     
  5. garrobitto

    garrobitto Karting

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    Criptic circuit. Will be an interesting race...
     
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  6. DF1

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    Nice post. Many thanks ! :)
     
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  8. pilotoCS

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  9. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 Veteran
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    #7 Nembo1777, Oct 18, 2020 at 6:31 AM
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2020 at 6:37 AM
    Glad you like it:)

    So after returning to Porto one more year F1 left Portugal until...1984.

    The new circuit was Estoril about 15 minutes inland from the eponymous resort. I have a bit of a personal history with that one.
    We lived in Lisbon Portugal 1968-75 when my father ran Citroen Portugal. For weekends we rented a house in the countryside in Albarraque 15 minutes from Estoril and as we drove right by the site when heading to Estoril or Cascais we saw it gradually being built.

    Then at last the very first race came. It was more of an inauguration trash, an extremely casual thing, but Citroen Portugal won:) Each importer brought a bog standar street car and since Ferrari, Maserati, Lambo were not imported in what was a relatively small market the fastest car was a Citroen SM (with Maserati engine) and the fastest driver was Joao Romaozinho, who had already won the rally of Portugal in 1969 in a DS with my father Jacques as the entrant in the name of Citroen Portugal. So that was a thrill to see from the grandstand at 8 years old:) Romaozinho and my (12 year older) sister considered marriage but she married another Portuguese whose father was the General Motors importer. Romaozinho passed away this year alas.

    Then the second race I saw a Estoril was the F2 round which for years was the most important race in Portugal, all I remember was that there was a Lamborghini Miura pace car and that the passenger frantically waving the Portuguese flag was leaning out of the car as if he was trying to fall out; strange what one remembers from childhood. I still have a circuito de Estoril keyring somewhere.

    Then F1 arrived in 84 with poor Prost winning but losing the title YET AGAIN to his teammate second place Lauda by...half a point.

    Then the next year the one who used to be known as Da Silva not so long before in karting won his first ever GP in pouring rain and the legend of Ayrton Senna was born.

    My sister Christine was in one of the F1 pits that day, Ligier, keeping company with Michele Dubosc, a lady who -after being a co driver to 250GTO racer Annie Soisbault in rallyes- was one of the first professional time and lap chart keepers in F1 at a time when all you had were a bunch of stopwatches, which required great concentration. Christine just remembers a miserable day but with great celebrations at the end.

    Here is the race with BBC Hunt Walker commentary: enjoy:)!

     
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  10. 375+

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    Terrific story Marc, thanks.
     
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  11. DF1

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    An example of what keeps me here enjoying these insights from Marc! :) And insights from our other members here! Superb!
     
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  13. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 Veteran
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    To finish with Estoril some major moments there:

    Villeneuve passing Schumi on the outside of the nearly flat out final corner:



    A coupe of bloopers:

    1992 major misunderstanding between Berger and Patrese:



    1995: Katayama thinks he is a bowling ball at the start, but was ok: just bruises. This sort of thing could happen at any GP start and it is testimony to their skill that it does not.



    and to finish a wonderful find, not by me, by another Fchatter posted this a few years ago, Gerhard Berger onboard, the whole 1989 GP at Estoril with a Ferrari V12 screaming behind his back and cleaning our ears from the current car's lousy sound. Oh and yes he has a pretty good race:)

    This one you may have to go find in youtube yourself apparently but here is the file name:

    F1 Full Race Onboard Pure Engine Sound, Estoril 1989 Gerhard Berger



     
  14. 635CSI

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    Fantastic, thank you. You got a real sense in those days that there was a human being in the car. You could see so much more of the driver and what he was doing.
     
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  15. furoni

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    I was there on the katayama accident, i just saw him pass in front of me at full speed...but with upside down!!!!!
     
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  16. pilotoCS

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  17. pilotoCS

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  18. Nembo1777

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  19. cairns

    cairns Formula Junior

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    I really appreciate you OP! Very informative.
     
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  20. Remy Zero

    Remy Zero Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Is it a classic circuit setting like Mugello?
     
  21. Nembo1777

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    #18 Nembo1777, Oct 20, 2020 at 5:56 AM
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2020 at 6:02 AM
    Quite similar to Mugello even though built very recently (2008) lots of up and down blind brows, fast, flowing corners, it has been called a rollercoaster.

    The team previews are just beginning to show up online, here is what Magnussen had to say one of a minority of current drivers who have experience there:
    KM: "I tested there a long time ago in my junior career - I remember the track being really cool. It's a tricky, unique circuit with lots of blind corners. There should be some interesting parts of the track for overtaking as well, and it has a pretty long straight. It'll be a new challenge and it's one I look forward to."

    End of quote.

    I don't like video games and simulators but I must admit this is pretty good: a virtual "Leclerc" Lap. I think they will be exhausted after the race, perhaps more so than Mugello which LH said was the most draining race ever for various reasons but including the layout with all the high speed G force. The last curve will be like Arrabiata 1 and 2 at Mugello, incredibly fast.

     
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  22. 375+

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    Portimao looks like a fantastic circuit. It should separate the real racers from those who merely participate.
     
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  23. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Thanks for that sim lap. That's tiring just to watch. Roller coaster ride is the right comparison.
     
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  24. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    So maybe Ferrari should give the Vettel seat to Hulk before the race? :cool:
     
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  25. redfred84

    redfred84 Formula Junior
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    So here we are, just a few days before an exciting new venue, after a bye week, on the most serious thread of the F1 heading; and NOTHING! It's been over a day since any input on this thread, yet there is tons of chatter on all the finger pointing, hateful, gossip headings.
    Kinda makes me wonder.
     
  26. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Huh? What are you talking about?

    There is nothing going on right now.
     
  27. 375+

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    I blame Marc.;)
     

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