Poseur question

I think people are calling it the Poseur Ferrari due to

1. California IS based off a Maserati GT derived platform.
2. California even LOOKS similar to the Maserati GT but the Ferrari actually looks worse. (IMO, having seen the two in very close proximidy in person)
3. California is going to be mass produced.
4. California is practical, comfortable, seats 4, has a hardtop convertible, and easier to maintain than traditional Ferraris.


Personally I wouldn't care about any of the above except for #2..... shouldn't a drop top Ferrari look better than a Maserati entry coupe? After seeing those two cars I am actually quite anxious to see the Maserati GT Convertible.

 

Any convertible is a poseur car.

No convertible car ever has raced to defend the manufacturers honour, that is what a coupe is for or a proper spider (never had a roof and never meant to, as only reason it has no roof is to make the frontal area smaller). Note a F1 car does not have a roof to pull up when it gets cold .

A convertible means the car can have no roof, and then can have a roof ... where on a race cars specification does the designer ever want this sort of compromise. How is he/she supposed to design the cars aero ... roof up or down. Maybe they would race with the roof up, playing real racer and then maybe on the last couple of laps lower it so they could wave at their fans as they cruise in to win the race ... LOL Of course the helmet would get in the way of the drivers dashing good looks ... what a pity . Now a clear plastic helmet ...

Also this car was specifically designed to widen the market for Ferrari, that means it has to be softer, more practical and many other things that are not what Ferrari should be about. We can get all that stuff with a Toyota.
Pete
ps: personally if I ran a company and made a convertible model, it would have a nice and efficient little 4 cylinder engine, that was nice and fun and all but first and foremost efficient. There is no need for performance for cruising down the highway with the roof down smiling at all the "other" people.

Now if the customer wants to go fast ... I sell them the other model with a roof and a performance orientated motor. Save heaps and also save petrol, etc.

 

But maybe someone wants to drive a convertible and sometimes go along the Autobahn at 200kph. So having "a bit of extra power" is not so bad after all.

BTW, the original California Spider (the good one) got 4th at Le Mans. Not so bad for a "poseurs" car.

 

Personally (not that anyone cares), IMHO it's a FREAKIN' FERRARI!

I'd love to have one... I think it looks great... and would love to come out every morning, start it up and take it to work... and just enjoy the car...

As far as the complaints go... No complaints here... I'd take it... in a New York minute.

But, maybe my tastes are quite as refined as others...

Mike in Kuwait

 

Convertibles are for sunning yourself, taking in the surroundings, feeling the wind in your hair, and being seen. Nothing wrong with that, but those things are irrelevancies at best and corruption/heresy at worst for people whose desire in a sports car is to get as close as they can to driving "a race car for the road."

 

Let's not confuse the old California with this new thing.

The name is the same, but that is where ANY comparison ends.

 

Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the AC Ace. That car was built as a convertible and raced by the factory without any structural changes, and was good enough at events like LeMans to be noticed by Carroll Shelby.

But they were different times and in general I agree with your point that convertibles are not meant for racing.

I disagree, however, that a convertible Ferrari is a poseur's car because it is a convertible. There are quite a few convertibles in Ferraris past that ooze class and sophistication, the original 250 California being one of them. The new one is not, IMHO. I just don't go: "I WANT ONE!!!!" when I see it.


Onno

 

One could argue that any Ferrari driver who is not also a professional racer must be a poseur.

There is no such thing as a race car for the street anymore. They are all heavily compromised. Anyone who has raced a true race car knows this.

Personally, I have no objection to any product that will help Ferrari to survive and prosper.

dave

 

Drive it, I have, and then say it is a poseurs car - it is a Ferrari through and through. Any expensive car can be a poseur's car if that is your thing.

 

Good post Dave.

 

Not the same, but I really see some similarities: both are cars for the cool, fashionable people. Unfortunately just the old one has exclusivity, a V12 and a direct link with the racing cars, but, well, these are the times they´re achanging.

Anyway, my post was not about the old California vs the new, but about that convertible cars can be really mean too. The old Califronia was. Probably the new one not. I suppose that it has another virtues.

 

What he said.

Most purpose built race cars were/are open.

Coupes and sedans were built for comfort in cold/damp weather.

Yeah, look at this poseur... must be one of those hairdressers.
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Point one; The beloved 246 Dino had an engine built by FIAT. The 308 engine was used in Lancia sedans. Funny, I don't hear anyone complaining now adays.
Point two: Looks are always a matter of opinion but the GT is much, much bigger, heavier, and with far less technology.
Point three: Mass produced... you mean like the 360 modena and F430? The actual projected yearly sales numbers are only a thousand cars per year different.
Point four: Ummm. like Mercedes? They race in F-1 and I don't see anyone complaining that they make a hard top convertible for "poseurs". What about the Mondial? What about the 400? Weren't these "Enzo" era cars a sell out to poseurs too?

This board is proof that 99.9% of us are poseurs. How many posts are about modifying your car for track or racing vs what kind of wax is best, what exhaust sounds best, how to keep the leather looking good, and how much a car has decreased in value?

Let me give you a little secret: If you're worried about the mileage of your car and it's potential resale value, YOU ARE A POSEUR -- coupe, spider or whatever.

So, we're poseurs. Well...BFD. Even the Scuderia comes with AC standard. (Strange...I never knew F-1 cars came with climate control!)

As to the issue of use as a daily driver: I guess that makes all 911 owners poseurs too because they use there cars everyday just to toodle around traffic.

Let's have a test. The next Porsche guy you see at a stop light, tell him he's a poseur. BTW, I suggest you duck because your head is about to have a meeting with his fist.

 

But they don't have "tops", especially heavy metal tops. Those cars you are referring to are not "convertibles" but spiders, ie. have no roof.

We cannot include vintage cars here because they didn't understand aerodynamics back then and thus to make a race car lighter they had no roof. This changed with the Alfa Romeo 8c2900B which lead LeMans and was an aero-coupe.

Again I have no problem what so ever with convertibles, except with fast ones ... that is like the 2 opposite ends of design meeting confused in the middle. Find me a F360 Spider/Convertible that has raced seriously ... hasn't happened because the better car is the coupe ... nuff said.
Pete

 

Never a truer word said.

I'm not though because I don't own a overly fast car for the public road, I own a Toyota family car and a '71 Alfa Romeo 1750 GTV, both perfectly suited for the public road. I also own a m/c, but it's a 250cc one that I use to go to work and back ... soon I hope to go up to 600cc so it doesn't wear itself out so quickly but again why so many own the 180mph bikes is beyond me.

I used to race club cars ... so I built a spaceframe fibreglass car and went racing. Trailered it to the track and won a minor club championship many, many years ago.

I like Ferraris, especially the older ones, but I really don't see the point of them. I think the original Dino and the 308GT4 are probably the best road cars Ferrari ever made. Since then it's all been too much wanking about top speed, paddle shifts ...
Pete

 

Let's just get real: If you don't track your car you are a poseur. You want the celebrity glory of the wealth-implying prancing horse --but not the work it takes to actually learn to drive a performance car to it's limits. Enzo had contempt for such people.

If you only buy a Ferrari to park in front of the club or hotel, so people can see the horse, you're a poseur.

 

Agree, hence I don't own one.

Now of course there is absolutely nothing wrong with owning a nice and fast road car, but please not with paddles and carbon brakes and all the other stuff that makes no improvement to a road car whatsoever. Enzo most definitely would not have equipped his road cars with such stuff.
Pete

 

No, he equipped a road car with a big wing at the rear. Something very useful in a road car...

C´mon guys, if you don´t like it, don´t buy it, but saying that you are "x" just because you drive the car "y" is a bit harsh and simplistic. At the end of the day the real "poseur" is the one who thinks that someone´s personality depends on the car he drives.

 

Hence you hang out on FerrariChat and explain why no one other than Kimi Raikkonen or Felipe Massa should own a Ferrari.

There is a market for sports cars, and Ferrari supply cars for that market. The debate around the California, and to some extent the 599 and 612, is whether Ferrari should be in the luxury/touring car business or confine themselves to sports cars.

I don't have a problem with Ferrari doing both - probably makes sense from a business perspective, and there is money to be extracted from badge worshippers with kids and golf clubs. The "poseur" label is tempting to apply to the California (and 599/612) because the Ferrari brand implies driving prowess, but -- to paraphrase Jeremy Clarkson -- any balding fat bloke can plop into these bigger cars, stick them in auto mode, activate traction and launch control, and pretend to know what he's doing while chatting on the mobile phone.

I agree, the California is basically a luxury car, as is any road-going Ferrari to some extent. Even the Boxer/308/328 had power windows, leather seats and heavy carpets.

The vintage Formula 1 cars from back in 2009 are all open cars. Having a big plane of metal above -- and curtain of glass around -- the driver is great for a road car but doesn't work in racing. Again, buyers expect theft resistance, climate control and reasonable noise levels and usually dont want their hair mussed every drive, so coupes make sense for most.

 

Ferrari has had poseur customers for decades. Ferrari has made GT road cars for decades.

 

Work is boring and I usually only view the Vintage section and a bit of F1.

Agree and as CharlieHorse said, they have been making them for ages.

Its just a pity that they are now adding things that really are only useful on the track, like carbon brakes ... oh well if it makes customers happy . Carbon brakes are such a waste of resources too, but that is a different topic.
Pete

 

Hmmm... so you would pay $50k to $100k over the competition for a car that Maser sells for $125K?

If I was in this market, which I'm not, I'd go for the MB SL Black series. The suspension set up in a AMG is a little too soft for my tastes. But, OMFG, what a motor. What a ****ing motor. I have never experienced such bottomless torque.

Funny, when I brought up the question of the how much racing heritage modern Ferraris have, which is basically none, I was soundly criticized.

But I do agree about Ferrari getting a financial shot in the arm. However, this car will NOT be the same as the Cayenne was for Porsche. Too bad.

Keep the baby, faith. No one got the joke about my thread on racing heritage, which is why would anyone want F1 technology in a street car? I wonder if folks know that the oil in a F1 car has to be heated for 20 minutes before you can fire it up. This is just a minor point. Simply put, you don't want this stuff in a street car.

Dale

 

Maybe he had contempt, maybe not, but either way he designed and sold a lot more cars to these folks than to racers and fully comprhehended that to be a viable company he absolutely needed these customers. Just look at the ratio of 250 Lussos to 250 GTO's. Funny, I never heard anyone refer to a Lusso owner as a poseur.

Dave

 

For some reason this "poseur" thing keeps coming up. I always thought "poseur" meant someone who was putting on airs and/or pretending to be something more than he/she was.

Isn't it ok to want a sports car to have a little fun on the road? Some folks like to see the stars at night while they take a nice drive, or to feel the wind around them and hear the engine a little better, so they might opt for a drop top. Since I'm a Mondial (gasp!) driver then I must definitely be a poseur. Even though I actually don't like any extra attention, don't own a Ferrari hat, shirt, etc., and drive the car exactly for what it was designed for - a fun little sports car for the road. I choose roads for their driving enjoyment - not for what or who might be there, and especially avoid areas with lots of cars and people to slow down the pace. Apparently I'm posing to be something though.

If I trade in the Mondial on a Lotus Elise (I sure like that Type 25!) then am I a bigger poseur because now my car is more of a "race car for the road" but it isn't really, or am I less of a poseur because the car lays down better numbers? What if I get an MX-5 Miata - more of a poseur because some say it's a "girly car" (even though there's several race series based on it) or less of a poseur because the general consensus is that it is less flashy so I must not be trying to impress?

I can see having an opinion on the California for what it is mechanically, cosmetically, economically, or any other such criteria. But when you see one with a guy in it that is just enjoying the day in a nice car, please keep your opinions to yourself. Some guys just like to enjoy the drive.

(By the way, yes, I used the ultimate guaranteed to have flames shot at you word on F-Chat - "Mondial". Let's keep it at that - this isn't a thread about that car - there are enough of those! This is about the California and the assertion of a "poseurs car", and lets keep it that way.)