Possible cause/relief for header/valve guide problems???

Quit worrying about valve guides and get to work.
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Hi Jay

The late 355 and the 360/430's use powdered metal valve guides.

PM technology is far superior to anything known to exist......it can be formulated for any engine design build requirements, from F1 to John Deere.

Having spent much time with the Hitachi R&D engineers they can mfg these parts for anywhere from $8-$30 per guide depending on formula...they can duplicate the Ferrari formula or engineer to your spec's...these prices include the moulds which means no external machine work and only require minimal hone for valve stem clearance.

They need a minimum of 500 pieces..which is about 14 engines.

 

No
Thanks for clarifying. Surprised with all the Research and development in the creation of the F355 the problem would have been diognosed. I guess the problem was solved with the Modena 360.

From my analysis Porsches have a permanant oil leaking issue and Ferrari Header problems(F355, 360, 430) sounds like the Diablos turned out most reliable of the bunch unless there are bugs there yet to be determined.

 

.............

Good to know .......

 

Why bother going to the trouble? Put in a set of readily available good quality bronze guides. They will easily outlast everything else in the motor.

 

ah ha, if enough questions are asked the story becomes complete!

It seems for the 355 Ferrari anticipated a valve guide problem with the smaller dia., higher speed, etc. and did raise the specs - the copper base 355 guide was the hardest they ever used. After a few years they found that their choice wasn't good enough and further upgraded to sintered iron (or steel - I'd still love to see what the actual hardness and chemistry is). Since that seems to have worked, they just carried the new material over to the newer models.

 

Is the 95 Challange car a special motor with stronger guides or the same motor since is a race car?

 

Under CH rules the engine proper was to be same as offered for 95 street version(i.e. 2.7 OBDI) car. There was only one internal parts change...a washer at the oil pump for pressure.

However it was noted that some teams cheated a little by modifying the exhaust port on cyl. heads and some converted to the PM valve guides in 99.

 

Talk to any Diablo guy, they SHOULD know the dangers of failing oil lines causing catastrophic engine damage or vehicle fire. Most parts cars are victims of this failure.

Porsche just f@#$%d up with the Boxster/996 engines, bad crank design plus other issues, that after the 964 oil leakers in 89/90 needing cylinder and head mods. Later cars are much better.

 

Failing oil lines is not mechanical poor design or defect, a competent mechanic should find and replace it during major service inspection(operator negligence or mechanics oversight). The only bugs from my personal research is electric gremlins on early Diablos and some Viscous all-wheel drives failing again abuse-operator error.

Porsche has not officially admited to the collapsing walls-porous water mixing, rear main seal or engine bearing issues on 996-boxters(least reliable since 74-77 911's 2.7 motors). Every Porsche leaks even 997s new gaskets leaks oil. It is the nature of having 11 quarts of oil to make matters more complicated now coolant. The 996 turbo with the GT1 motor is the only safe bet of the bunch. IMO

 

And yet they build a car with headers that fail and have become a consumable part, a $7,500 consumable at that.

 

FWIW, Porsche only used 11 quarts up until the water boxer era. I have yet to find oil problems on customer,s later cars, had more exhaust failures here.

The Diablo oil lines ARE a poor design, hence their failures. They do not start to leak as on the 308/328 oil coolers but simply fly apart from the crimp joint. Presently doing an engine from such failure and know of at least 2 others. FWIW, a precautionary replacement would be in the order of $1000, when many customers use their vehicles 2-3000 miles a year and bring them in once a year for oil service and check you think I should add that just in case?

 

And their appendix might become a problem so take it out too.

You hear that Brian? It our fault the oil hoses blow up. Problem with his idea is that the car actually needs to make it far enough to need a major service before we are supposed to inspect them.

I wonder if it is also our fault when a tire blows out?



Sheesh.

 

Why don't you try rereading post 13?

 

How true!

 

Ah I see your point, so once the hoses and lines are replaced then no problem right? I would not take offense if the service was recommended during my oil change, driving a 100K+ for taking $1000service a year is pretty reasonable given the options IMO.

The operator is to blame if he does not accept such a preventive measure its the nature of the beast. I would be pretty upset if I was not fortold of the PM.

 

see post #63

Oh, we don't get enough $h1t from people because we recommend doing things that don't suit their budgets or standards......

 

Failure is failure. Regardless of who/what did it. Did Ferrari have NO input into the header design, the specifications of said materials used in it's manufacture, the Q&A of the parts/pieces?

Sorry, the "supplier at fault" issue doesn't fly with me. It's a known problem, has been known for a long time, yet even when Ferrari sell you replacements, it's the same crap that was on the car to begin with. That is complete and total BS.

 

Absolutely. It's the cool thing to just say they're crap, bad supplier, bad batch, cheap part, who knows what. But to have THREE YEARS of crap? No my friends, that was a wrong design choice by the factory. They made their best decision based on info they had, turns out what they spec'd wasn't good enough. So they had to upgrade once they saw the extent of the problem. I've seen it happen many times on other OEM components. Whoops, didn't expect THAT! upgrade material / process, please. This is why it's best to buy the later model years, there's many upgrades along the way that aren't publicized and often aren't even known by other technology groups within the manufacturer! i.e. the 'bottom end' team may not ever hear about a tweaked rocker arm design or process, never mind the general public.

 

+1

+2 ................ material specification/use is absolutely part of the 'design' .......... if the supplier on their own decided to substitute for a lesser material is a breach on the suppliers part. But since the factory knows these manifolds have been/are failing for some time and changed nothing ......... is clear burden on the factory ...... especially since it is still happening to some degree even on the 'newer' F430 ......

 

Just what part of "This is not to excuse Ferrari as an auto manufacturer from using them" didn't any of the four of you get?

I was only trying to draw a distinction from internally designed and manufactured parts vs those bought outside. If none of the 4 of you understands that let me know and next time I will try and do it in pictures so you will not have to rely on your reading and English language skills to understand.

I have never been an apoligist for badly made Ferrari products and have taken a great deal of heat here for being critical of them. And many of those criticisims have come from one or more of the four of you so put it where the light don't shine.

 

I'm not taking any sides on this but That's really funny! If the "weasel" is reading this thread I bet he would post this picture. Spoonfeeding comes to mind.
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Nah....no weasel in that pic!!!
Anyway, he's been kinda scarce around here lately since this happened.....
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The wound hurts real bad
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