Possible fix for a noisy/rattling 355 exhaust valve | FerrariChat

Possible fix for a noisy/rattling 355 exhaust valve

Discussion in '348/355' started by f355spider, Dec 29, 2007.

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  1. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
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    May 29, 2001
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    I learned recently from fellow 355 spider owner JH355 that one of the reasons for the rattle on the exhaust valve is that with age, the spring in the vacuum unit attached to the valve loses tension. It IS adjustable, and you can unscrew the rod three turns or so, and put some more preload/tension on the valve to keep it shut at idle, and reduce/eliminate the rattle.

    Sorry, I did not take pictures, but here is a brief description of the procedure:

    1) Remove the air boxes and MAF. The air boxes and tubing can come out as one piece (several 10mm nuts and one hose clamp). Then remove the clamp and wire plug to the MAF and it comes out.

    2) Remove the heatsheild, there are several 10mm nuts that have to come off. Remove the little hose clamp to vacuum thing on side of exhaust valve.

    3) Now you have to remove the two 13mm bolts on the top and bottom of the exhaust valve. Then you will need a broom stick to pry (gently) on the muffler to make a small gap to remove the exhaust valve.

    4) With the valve out, you can see the threaded rod, and how by loosening the small locking nut, you can unthread the rod out a two or three turns. On mine, the ball end would not easily come out of of the socket on the rod end, so we instead, removed the three nuts holding the vacuum unit, and turned the vacuum unit three turns out, then remounted it to the bracket. This gave us about 1/8" of preload tension on the valve, where there was little to none before.

    5) Reverse steps to reinstall. Careful with the routing of the vacuum hose when reinstalling everything! Double check all fasteners upon completion.

    I will wait for a day or two for cold start to report back if this has eliminated the rattle or not.

    Big thanks as always to JH355. ;)

    BTW, the other reason for the rattle on the valve (shown to me by John) is that the valve itself has an end bushing that can wear, causing a lot of play in the valve. It is possible to have a machine shop make a new bushing out of ss and repair it.
     
  2. Monteman

    Monteman Formula 3
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    Monte
    Thanks for the write up. Please let us know if this fixed the problem.
     
  3. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
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    Went for a drive this evening, no rattles at start up or during the drive. Looks like a good fix! ;)
     
  4. 285ferrari

    285ferrari Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Sep 11, 2004
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    Mine whistles a little on start up, but goes away after about 10 minutes---My mechanic said that is perfectly normal...As long as the noise does go away..
     
  5. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
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    The only whistle you should get at cold start up is the electric air pump...which shuts off after three or four minutes.
     
  6. 285ferrari

    285ferrari Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Sep 11, 2004
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    They took an extra look at it during my last visit and even took the car for a drive--said it was ok...I'll have them look at it again the next time I go up...
     
  7. Cinemagic

    Cinemagic Formula Junior

    Apr 28, 2007
    325
    Scottsdale, AZ
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    Cary Christie II
    f355spider,

    Thanks for the great write up, very informative.

    I took my exhaust apart as you suggested and it was very easy. I decided to take the same route as you did and remove the three nuts holding the vaccuum unit for the adjustment...but I ran into a small issue. There is a thin white gasket between the vaccuum and the mounting plate, which literally turned to dust, poof. Looking at the parts manual, I do not see a part # for the gasket. Did you run into this issue? Is there a substitute material that I might get at a local store, I want to make sure the car is perfect and I do not like shortcuts.

    Also, you said that you created about 1/8" tension, is that a factory spec? I want to make sure that the valve works properly and does not have issues due to overtensioning.

    Thanks again!
     
  8. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
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    I did not see a similar material on my exhaust valve. If mine had it, it may have already turned to dust...but I would think there would then be a gap, which there was not. There is no spec that I am aware of for how much tension should be there, this is obviously a "trial and error" process. Start with three turns, if the rattle is still there, you know what you need to do. If the rattle is gone, stop there.
     
  9. Cinemagic

    Cinemagic Formula Junior

    Apr 28, 2007
    325
    Scottsdale, AZ
    Full Name:
    Cary Christie II
    It was only about 1/16" thick at most, white in color.

    I wonder if it is needed, for heat separation etc. I am going to see if the local store has a generic gasket material that I can cut to fit.

    My valve had VERY LITTLE tension before the fix. I did notice that if I lifted the rod while the car was running the rattle went away, so I am hoping the bushing is good. There is a very slight amount of play in the bushing, but I am unsure how much is in the new piece as they may allow for heat expansion etc in their design, so a little play when cold may be normal.
     
  10. Cinemagic

    Cinemagic Formula Junior

    Apr 28, 2007
    325
    Scottsdale, AZ
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    Cary Christie II
    I need to replace my O2 sensors as well, wouldn't this be easier now as the entire exhaust is visible? The car sputters at idle and a Ferrari mechanic told me the O2 sensors were to blame.

    Can I just replace them with new units and they work or is there other things needed, like a computer system and tweaking after the installation?

    Where are they located???
     
  11. cf355

    cf355 F1 Rookie

    Feb 28, 2005
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    chris
    You have two O2 sensors in each cat for a total of 4......so you have to identify which sensors your mechanic is referring to and replace the correct ones.
    It can get quite expensive and you might want to purchase them on Ebay to save some $.
    As I have a 95 model, I have only 2 sensors in total and made the mistake of buying them at the dealer.......$860.00 later........the last New sensors I saw on Ebay went for $90.00 each.

    Make sure when you re-turn on the power to the battery that you go through the 10 minute 'relearn' process for the idle setting.
     
  12. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
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    Cary,
    rather than get this thread too far off track, please start another thread or PM me for O2 sensor assistance.

    Thanks!
    Dave
     
  13. Cinemagic

    Cinemagic Formula Junior

    Apr 28, 2007
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    Cary Christie II
    Dave,

    I agree, sorry!

    Back on track...I was able to purchase some generic high temp gasket material at Checker Auto parts. I will post pics soon.
     
  14. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
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    A little play in the mechanism IS normal. According to JH355 the bushing is made of stainless steel and indeed will expand as it heats up. He experimented with making new bushings and found if made with too tight a tolerance, it will prevent the valve from moving once the exhaust is at operating temperature.
     
  15. sandersja

    sandersja Formula Junior

    Jan 16, 2003
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    John Sanders
    THANKS for posting this information - it was very helpful. IMHO that is exactly what FChat should be for.

    I just did the same job - relatively painless - but I won't be able to road test it until some more snow melts from in front of my garage. Hard to judge just how much tension is needed so I tried to be conservative.

    I was able to avoid having to remove the vacuum pot and got the ball end of the rod off of the socket without much trouble. The trick was judicious placement and simultaneous wedging of thin screwdrivers on both sides of the ball. A bit of penetrating oil helped loosen the lock nut.
     
  16. Cinemagic

    Cinemagic Formula Junior

    Apr 28, 2007
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    Cary Christie II
    #16 Cinemagic, Jan 6, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  17. Cinemagic

    Cinemagic Formula Junior

    Apr 28, 2007
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    Cary Christie II
    #17 Cinemagic, Jan 6, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    This is the gap showing the amount of pre-tensioning before tightening, which represents two turns from its original position. Is this about what you had pre-tightening?
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  18. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
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    Mine was three turns, but looks like the same gap you came up with.
     
  19. Cinemagic

    Cinemagic Formula Junior

    Apr 28, 2007
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    Cool. So this is a gap amount that might work. Time to tighten it down and re-install.
     
  20. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
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    How much gap did you have before you started adjusting? I had essentially none. I would think you would have had a little.
     
  21. Cinemagic

    Cinemagic Formula Junior

    Apr 28, 2007
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    Cary Christie II
    Very little, maybe 1/16"
     
  22. Monteman

    Monteman Formula 3
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    Need some guidance here.....

    I removed the bypass valve as described made the adjustment but having a very hard time getting the bypass valve to fit properly back into the Y pipe. Was there any trick to this?
     
  23. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
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    What is the fitiment issue? All you should have to do is reverse the steps. Is the valve not lining up correctly?
     
  24. Monteman

    Monteman Formula 3
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    The valve goes into the exhaust fine but won't fit back into the Y pipe. It was tight getting it out and I had to lightly tap it with a rubber hammer to get it loose. I may take some fine emery paper and go around the inside of the Y pipe and the same on the bypass valve to see if that helps.
     
  25. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
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    Sounds good, or some brown Scotchbrite pad might work.
     

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