Possible Project | FerrariChat

Possible Project

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by jenniferj521, Oct 22, 2012.

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  1. jenniferj521

    jenniferj521 Rookie

    Jun 8, 2006
    34
    Wisconsin
    Full Name:
    Jennifer
    OK, let me start by saying I know some in here may think this is sacrilege to even consider, but I am considering a new project and I LOVE the look of the '80's - early '90's TR. My favorite is the 512TR. Would the new F12 Berlinetta engine fit in the engine bay of the TR?

    Thanks all!
     
  2. JeremyJon

    JeremyJon F1 Veteran

    Jul 28, 2010
    7,569
    Calgary, Canada
    not without extensive modifications, the TR engine is a boxer/flat 12 engine with the transmission tucked underneath it mostly ....for the same power a turbo option would come close without the extensive mods, not to mention the cost
     
  3. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ

    Feb 16, 2003
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    The distance from the rear axle to the firewall at the back of the passenger compartment is very short. So short that you would be hard pressed to fit a small V-8 in that space.

    Study the layout of a TR and you will see what I mean. A stock TR has the transmission AND differential UNDER the engine and also ahead of the axle.

    You might be able to drop a V-12 in there but you would have to figure out where to mount the transmission and still get power to the wheels.

    The best bet is to stick with the stock layout, bullet-proof the differential and transmission, and go with twin turbos. Norwoods has a 1000 HP kit already designed.
    You could do this for a fraction (10%) of what you are proposing.
     
  4. UpNorth

    UpNorth Formula 3
    Owner

    Sep 30, 2006
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    Francois
    Would like to see this 1000hp TR and a F12 with the manettino on sport position at a drag racing strip...
     
  5. James_Woods

    James_Woods F1 World Champ

    May 17, 2006
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    It WOULD be a magnificent transmission explosion.
     
  6. jenniferj521

    jenniferj521 Rookie

    Jun 8, 2006
    34
    Wisconsin
    Full Name:
    Jennifer
    I appreciate the insights. I've not had a chance to get a close look at the TR since I first drove it back in the early nineties! :( Turbo option from Norwood sounds nice though! :) Thank you very much for the thoughts and impressions!
     
  7. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 6, 2002
    79,143
    Houston, Texas
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    We have a member put a jet turbine engine into one, but I join the others a V12 drivetrain will be too long.

    Get the 599GTO, or the new F12.

    Or for the same money, about 12 Trs, 512TRs, 512Ms....you could have every color!
     
  8. James_Woods

    James_Woods F1 World Champ

    May 17, 2006
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    What ever happened to that gas turbine project?
     
  9. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ

    Feb 16, 2003
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    Han Solo
    I'm guessing it stalled.
     
  10. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ

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    #10 Spasso, Oct 23, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Here is a side view of a TR engine and transaxle assy.
    The axle flange (the round silver disc below the cam cover) comes out between the 5th and 6th cylinder.
    This tells you where the differential is located under the engine.
    The transmission is forward of that, also under the engine, left side.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  11. open roads

    open roads F1 Rookie

    Jan 28, 2007
    3,798
    Sarasota, Fl.
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    I'm pretty sure this is going to be the only arrangement worth considering. It is very different than any others.

    This packaging is quite tight. The center of gravity got a little higher than hoped for, with so much above the trans and diff.
     
  12. UpNorth

    UpNorth Formula 3
    Owner

    Sep 30, 2006
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    Francois
    I tought Norwood would change enough parts in the lower compartment to sustain all that power, no?
     
  13. JeremyJon

    JeremyJon F1 Veteran

    Jul 28, 2010
    7,569
    Calgary, Canada
    i keep thinking now how well one of those might fit in a 308 (fiberglas body, flares, campas) ....hmmm? :D
     
  14. JeremyJon

    JeremyJon F1 Veteran

    Jul 28, 2010
    7,569
    Calgary, Canada
    from an article i have of norwoods twin turbbo testarossa, he says how they did some work, including heat treating input shaft, etc ...but it seemed form the that, there wasn't any magic way to ensure it staying intact ...though he did mention that the significant turbo lag was kept intentionally to help make the transmission live ;)
     
  15. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ

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    Not if you don't pay for it.
    Their package is all about the engine last time I checked.
    For the 1000 HP model the heads have to come off so the cylinders can be 'O'-ringed, and plethora of other mods.
    It's usually up to you to beef up the stuff down stream, which they will do at an additional cost.
     
  16. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ

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    #16 Spasso, Oct 24, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2012
    Only if you stretch the wheel base of the 308.
    The stock V-8 sits crosswise in the car and the diff directly behind it.
    You are short about three feet of space to the firewall..

    The picture I posted of the engine does not include the clutch, bellhousing and drop gears off the back, making it even longer.
     
  17. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ

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    #17 Spasso, Oct 24, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2012
    It's the differential that you REALLY have to worry about.
    A stock TR engine produces enough HP to blow them up.
    I imagine a twin turbo could speed that process up considerably.

    I wouldn't even consider a turbo set-up without FIRST installing a one piece forged carrier with a total rebuild of the differential and clutch pack.
     
  18. James_Woods

    James_Woods F1 World Champ

    May 17, 2006
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    Speaking of the Norwood Twin Turbo TRs, does anybody posting here still have one (and is still running it)?

    James Patterson showed me one that was being converted back to a standard NA car.
     
  19. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ

    Feb 16, 2003
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    There is a thread in the TR section on a Boxer with a Norwood twin turbo TR engine in it,
    http://www.thebestemployee.com/forum/showthread.php?t=175398

    Rebuild and re-plumb by Brian Crall.

    Not any different than a TR really.
     
  20. JeremyJon

    JeremyJon F1 Veteran

    Jul 28, 2010
    7,569
    Calgary, Canada
    all true ...it would make for an interesting project though! :)
     
  21. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ

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    There is a V-12 / 308QV project being built on another forum.
    The block is from a 400i and the heads are from a TR engine.
    This one is installed TRANSVERSE, just like the V-8.
    It also uses the V-8 bellhousing, transmission and differential, none of which are prone to catastrophic failure.
    All of this is being done within the STOCK wheel base.

    Otherwise, it would be virtually impossible to install a flat 12 in a 308 without it growing way out of proportion.

    The quote in my Signature is by the owner of that car. The guy is a genius.
    Google "308 V12 conversion (V12 308)"
     
  22. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ

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    #22 Spasso, Oct 24, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  23. Jakuzzi

    Jakuzzi Formula 3

    Mar 26, 2005
    2,072
    PR, TX, GV
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    Jaime
    Almost 3 years since the tease.... Any new news? :)
     
  24. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
    Consultant Professional Ferrari Technician

    Sep 18, 2002
    19,344
    The Cold North
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    I would love to know this too. I remember him posting all about it on this site, then somthing happend and he was gone..
     
  25. Jezter70

    Jezter70 Formula Junior

    Nov 1, 2013
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    Surry (from UK)
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