430 Post Ownership Cost Data - Purchasing "cheap" F430

Same here, my 360 had no issues and starts up like a champ and just goes. I was thinking about upgrading but from this thread to the last year or so being on here the 430 seems to have random issues than a 360. The belt vs chain thing is nothing compared to what I have been seeing. The 360 might be the true reliability king of Ferrari.

 

Ehhhh. I don't know about that one. The 360 is really a mixed bag. While some people have minimal issues with them, others have trainwrecks hellbent on destroying their life financially.

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You sure? I've been searching for the last half a year for my 1st Ferrari (i have one now since 31st may), looked at 360's and F430's (and shortly a California, but that was a big NO from me), spoken to multiple owners of both models, and all came to 1 conclusion mainly, the F430 usually has less issues and costs less to keep running than the 360. We already leaned to a F430, but after the stories we definitely had our choice... F430

 

Interesting, I guess either car’s reliability is irrelevant since we all just love the brand. I know a Porsche is cheaper and has a massive following but to me, it’s just does not move me inside and find them beyond boring.

 

I can assure you that none of us bought a Ferrari for the reliability lol

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It's not just about reliability, I would say it's more about the rate of aging; just seems like more things need replacing and refreshing with age such as bushings and rubber parts in suspension, gearbox whine, steering tightness etc. engine has been bullet proof (except for gen 2 oem headers leaking and needing replacement) but everything else need expensive pampering to stay tip top, more than in a Porker.

 

Just and observation...
I've been on this forum for about 6 years now. I own a 360. I'm struck by the feeling that these Ferrari 360 and 430 cars can be a case of you either get a "good one" or a problematic one-- regardless of mileage or year. I (knock on wood) have had mine for over 6 years now with only normal maintenance and no off the wall issues that some have described here on the 360 forum.

I will qualify that with the following:
I regularly drive my 360.
I bough a car that was well cared for and had a fair amount of records documenting work that was done.
My car had 21K miles on it when I bought it and only 2 previous owners. Now it has close to 29K miles
I didn't get a great deal but I got a fair deal at the time.
My car spent it's entire life in a dry climate: Arizona, Nevada, and California.

 

My F355/360/F430 have been more reliable and required less maintenance than my last 3 daily drivers (E90 M3, Maserati Gransport, and B7 RS4)

The engines/trans on these cars are bulletproof compared to what other OEMs put out.

 

Lol, lets not get started on the reliability of BMW M cars, Ive had 4x a E46 M3 (3 of which in the end had some pretty bad engine damage, 1 even with a hole in the block, 1 with camshafts what ate into the valves, thus not opening properly anymore, and the other bearings that failed at 45K km) and my E92 was by far the worst, getting new bearings (from a BMW M workshop chiefmechanic), and 2000km later completely grenade itself, costing me 10K+ euros for a new one..... those cars are terrible reliability wise!

4200 spider, was also filled with mainly electrical gremlins making it very hard to trust the car, im sure the gransport had same issues?

 

It's quite frankly ridiculous. The only M car I had owned before the E90 M3 was an M4 GTS that was fairly reliable (and still under warranty). The E90 is just shocking with how many things go wrong:

• Valve covers are poorly coated magnesium. The coating bubbles when exposed to oil, causing huge valve cover gasket leaks. Fix is to either strip the coating and re-coat (which will have the same issues down the road) or spend $$ to buy new aluminum billet covers.
• Throttle actuators have plastic gears and fail
• Rod bearings have incorrect clearance from factory and fail, grenading the engine
• A/C evaporators all fail and leak, requiring dash removal to fix to have cold A/C. And the replacement part will eventually fail in the exact same way
• Vanos cap covers are plastic and will disintegrate into tiny chunks, which block oil pickup and blow the motor if you don't replace with metal versions

Gransport was actually random things like the headlight washer caps coming off, suspension arms being NLA from Maserati and costing a fortune to re-bush, coil packs going bad (and being very frustrating to replace because they come with the electrical leads integrated), etc. The car was actually shockingly reliable, just cost a lot to fix weird, one-off issues.

 

Just wanted to add for the benefit of owners that the steering rack (currently a US$10k+ part) is nothing special mechanically and can easily be rebuilt at a number of shops.

My 360 steering rack was rebuilt at Western Power Steering in the UK (no affiliation). They charge GBP500 and even with return FedEx from Hong Kong ended up under US$1500 all in. Of course you do need an understanding shop to take the rack out of the car and ship it.

On topic, my 360 spider F1 which I owned for 3 years cost me approx US$23k in maintenance over 3 years.

BUT

- about US$11k of this is accounted for by what I would call 'standard maintenance' over three years (in my case, three annuals, including the 'big' belt service, a set of PS4s and rear rotors / pads)

- perhaps another US$5k is me addressing things (paint touch ups, interior bits, window regulators) that were more about trying to make the car as good as it could be

- and ok, the rest is stuff that just broke or wore out (a/c compressor, steering rack, various sensors, fuel pumps) but nothing that couldn't happen on any 20 year old car

- what is key to the overall maths here is that I got a very respectable chunk of the original purchase price back when I sold it

It was also never running better than the day I sold it. It got MUCH more reliable with regular use (bought at 38k kms and sold at 52k kms). There's a saying (from Rolls Royce ownership I think) that a dollar spent on gas saves five on maintenance and I firmly believe this is true.

A 2008 F430 spider has replaced it and if maintenance works out close enough to the above (although there are some wildcards in there like the 430’s CCMs) I’ll be absolutely fine with it.

 

This is also true. I’ve got plenty of friends who own Porsches and between the IMS issues and bore scoring to the fact that bills on a 993 can make a Ferrari look like a Toyota, I’m good with F cars. No hate towards Porsches at all, but they are probably the most useful point of comparison.

A few more thoughts as I finish a beer:

- my own view is that Ferrari absolutely know how to make a reliable v8/v12 motor and gearbox. It’s what they do. Stories of Ferrari engines grenading themselves compared to M cars and Porsches are pretty few and far between as far as I can tell.

- that said, there’s no sense in being hopelessly optimistic either. You might get away with $3k a year maintenance but that’s not my experience or the experience of any other owners I know I real life. Plan and budget for the worst and hope for the best is my advice. The guys whose car needs nothing other than the annual every year - and I tip my hat to them - do generally seem skewed toward those who bought the car new or nearly new. When (like me) you’re in the market for an 360/430 with 3+ owners… well you’d need a bit of luck to keep inside of 5 figures in the first 18 months in my view.

- PPIs have a value but once you’ve owned a Ferrari there’s also a lot of value in a long-ish test drive (if the seller allows) to make sure the car holds its temps, pulls strongly, shifts good and no weird noises or feedback. If it drives right then it probably is right, but you’d obviously need to have a barometer from previous ownership to know what a good one feels like.

 

I don’t know how long u have owned your 360, hopefully your luck keeps going, but it may be a honeymoon period if it is fairly new to you.

it was the same for me. I bought both my 575 and 430 within a year of each other, and for 3-4 years they needed nothing and I thought, Ferrari ownership is a piece of cake…

well, I’ll be into 20k for my 430 and same into my 575 in the past 2 years. I had complete maintenance receipts when I bought both. Of course some of this was routine, including belts for the 575, but extras that went wrong were mainly due to age: bushings, ball joints, engine mounts, blown shock, fuel lines, gaskets….

Driving my 575 today, all that melts away, nothing beats the experience, worth every penny to me. Feel the same about the 430.

 

I think you are right. Ferrari engines are generally more reliable than M cars and Porsche, but is that due more to the design or the extra maintenance that Ferrari drivers perform vs M cars and Porsche treated more like Toyotas where they get a lot less maintenance and TLC? Who knows.... What really gets you on a Ferrari, and many other Italian cars, are the non-engine/transmission things like electronics and all the other stuff. If my Porsche seats wear off the dye in 10k miles, there is something wrong with the seats, in my Ferrari that's normal. If my vents pop-off in a 10k mileage Ferrari that requires pulling the dash to fix that's normal, but in a Porsche that would be improbable.

 

Went and properly looked up running costs for my 360. I bought a spare set of wheels and tires for track / fast road use, so I'm excluding those as they weren't "necessary". Also excluding the ceramic coating I had done as the car was in excellent shape from a paint perspective - I was just curious to see how much of a difference it would make (not a huge one, it turns out). Adding those costs back in would be an additional $3200 over the amount below.

My cost to run the car for 9 months was $5142 over 2453 miles ($2.09/mi), which included the following:

-Annual service (filters, all fluids, etc) including 8x new spark plugs
-Upgraded pads front/rear
-New brake rotors front/rear
-2 new oxygen sensors
-Upgraded Ricambi shift bushing
-Major service (timing belt with Hill bearings)
-Replaced rear hatch release cable

I performed all of these services at my shop with the exception of the belts / oil / coolant as those things were all done at the same time by another shop (Merlin) here in Atlanta. As has been stated to death on these forums, these cars are incredibly easy to work on and parts are quite cheap if procured from Eurospares / other European suppliers.

The major, annual, and brake services were completed approximately 7 months into my ownership, so the car was "good to go" for many thousands of miles without needing any service. I put about 30 miles on after these services so as to not go above the 30k mark to preserve resale value. I fully believe it is possible to run one of these cars for less than $1/mi over the long term (exclusive of fuel and insurance).

My actual cost to run the car was in the neighborhood of -$12.00/mi because of the appreciation of 6MT 360 Coupes over my ownership period.

 

@WillskiGT - So you're parking it from now on? I say forget the mileage and just drive it. I'm a little confused by the "appreciation of 6MT 360 Coupes over my ownership period" - What appreciation? I've been a close watcher of the market for 360's and it seems they've taken a downward or flat trajectory since the high about a year ago. Still, the outlook for OEM gated 360's is great. Especially with the conversions. I suspect the F1 will exceed the converted car value in around five years given the increase in spares, the increase in rarity of the F1, and the questionable quality in many of the conversions.

 

I sold my 360 16 months ago. The car appreciated ~50% during my ownership.

I doubt that any F1 gearbox car (360CS/Enzo/430 Scud/599 GTO excepted) will ever be particularly valuable. The 430 F1 is pretty good, but none of the F1 box cars are all that desirable.

 

There is actually a youtube video that touches on the steering racks here

 

2007. Headers replaced in factory campaign after about 4,000 miles. I bought car as anniversary present for my wife about 12,000 miles. Immediately put Capristo brackets and fab speed tips on it. In for annual fluids at 21,000 miles header crack. Plan on that every 10,000 miles in a 430 I guess

 

The factory header design is flawed. You have to go aftermarket to avoid cracking issues.

 

I now have Fabspeed headers on it.

 

You can also pull of those stupid oem U brackets on the rear exhaust to eliminate the heat expansion stress on the factory headers.

 

I put Capristo brackets on the 430 as soon as I took possession.