Hi all, Unfortunately, during a spirited drive to shakedown the new suspension work, I had a coolant hose burst. I limped home without overheating (thankfully, I was nearby at that point), and replaced the hose. As I refilled, I noticed a steady stream of coolant coming from what I believe is the water pump weep hole hose. This is not a little drip. So, my initial thought was that I blew through the pump seal? Does that sound right?
Could very well be. I once did a major on a BBi and had the terrible excuse for a seal rupture on the test drive. It can be replaced without removing the engine. I have done it. Really was not that bad. When I got it out it had ruptured like a popped balloon.
Hey Robert,. What hose did you blow ? About 2 weeks ago I blew hose part # 117307. I lost most of the coolant but thankfully was close enough to home that I limped back. The temp gauge went up 1 click. I shot the engine with my laser and the hottest spot came in at 209. I hope I have no collateral damage. I am replacing all the upper hoses so I won't know for awhile. To the guys that know a hell of a lot more than me, what would be a damaging temp for our aluminum engines-. warping, gaskets etc.
Hello Brian,. Speaking of a popped balloon. I would like to download a photo of my shot hose if I knew how. It truly looks like a popped balloon. Someone used a section of hose from the tank to tank crossover. It has the white stripe with the number 183. Fine for fuel and no pressure but not for a waterline I would think.
Big difference between coolant temp and aluminum temp. When getting heads off corroded studs i get them to 300. If water temp ever got to 300 it would be a pile of scrap metal. A lot of high temps will eventually change the character of the metal and should be avoided. To me 220 is a good place to turn it off and I really want a normal running temp 180 or less. Tow trucks are just not that expensive. Modern engines are designed for higher temps. Do not allow whats OK for a 2024 car to make you think its OK in a 40 year old Italian car.
Mine was 102957; which is the hose connecting the pipes that run under the car to the front (radiator inlet). If you really only got up to 98C, then I imagine your issues are more to do with cleaning up the unfortunate mess that happens when the coolant pools on the heads and then evaporates – and less to do with "damage".
Thanks Brian. Any tips / gotchas due to the tight space that I need to plan for, or just go for it? I kind of assumed the oil tank was going to be an issue.
The oil tank is an issue. Just work the problem. No magic. My hands are bigger than George Foremans. If I can get in there and do it so can you.
Brian, do you recall having to remove the oil tank? I'm finding it less of a hand size issue, and more of an issue with the cover's stud guides requiring the cover to move pretty far forward with not nearly enough gap between the cover and tank. Figured I'd ask before I start mentally preparing for removing the gas and oil tanks... Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
You cannot remove the oil tank and removing the belt cover is too difficult to bother with. I removed enough studs to get it far enough out of the way to work under it. I did it over 20 years ago. I am not going to even try to remember the details. When done it was a nice clean professional job with no butchered parts. I am not superman. If I figured it out so can you.
I have the hoses replaced that were my original problem. I went to start her and she turned over fine but would run for only a couple of seconds and then shut down. There appears to be good spark at the plugs. I have never had this problem before. Also,you can hear the fuel pumps.
Okay guys, I'm accepting defeat on this one. I'm concerned I'd actually do more harm than good. Plus, for the amount of time I've spent poking at this, I could have just done the prep to remove the engine. If anyone is curious, attached is a picture from underneath (LH alternator removed). At first glance, it seems doable, but there are a number of dead-ends, and I wasn't able to find the right path. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Had I known it looked like that I never would have suggested it. Thats some serious dog poop there. Has it ever been serviced? I got the impression it was a car not needing to be taken apart. I see nothing that does not require attention.
The plan was to do an engine rebuild later in the year. Ideally, I get the water pump addressed so I can enjoy the car for a few more months before sending it away. To Brian's point, I looked at the PO's service history documents, and it looks like the last belt service was done with the engine in situ by removing the LH gas and oil tank to access the LH timing cover. Also, there is an explicit note stating the pump was inspected and "appeared to be fine", so it was reinstalled with only a new o-ring. Not your typical "major". FWIW, although this might have been cause for concern if I knew what I know now about these cars, Tim Stafford did the PPI for my car (very respected in the South Florida area). So it seems I have a few options: 1. Let the car sit until it's sent out to have the engine rebuilt (and upgraded). Bummer. 2. Do a full engine out even though the engine will be taken out again in the near future. 3. Remove the gas and oil tank to access the LH timing cover and rebuild the pump. I wouldn't have done this for a full service, but it seems pragmatic in this case. Intuitively, you'd think removing the tanks would be less work than removing the engine (hence why it was done for the last belt change), but you all would know better than I would. Has anyone removed the LH gas and oil tank with the engine in situ? Anything I should know? Is it more trouble than it's worth, and I should just yank the engine?
Ive heard of the left tank and oil tank approach before. With what you've removed already I would take the tank removal route. Removing the engine is much more work and Im only suggesting it be done this way because of your future plans.
I think its easier to take the motor out. It looks like the tank should just come out but it doesn't. The motors are just not that hard to pull. And that one needs to come out to be made roadworthy.
Ive had two boxers in that had the belts done in the car and at first I couldn't understand how it was possible until I saw someone here recently, in a thread remove both fuel tanks from the bottom. I've never tried though. Time-wise if the tank drops out then I bet I could have that timing cover off in just over an hour. For the good of the Boxer owners I think he should do it so we can see
Okay, I'll be the guinea pig. Drumroll.......... you can do it. Once disconnected (strap, hoses, etc.) and the lower support bracket is removed, the LH tank scoots rearward, then drops straight down. There is no special angle, but it is very tight. You risk marring the tank's outer coating if you're not very careful. On my car, the NACA duct outlet protrudes and has sharp edges; which was the biggest issue. So I imagine everyone's car will be a little different. The supports under the felt pads also have sharp edges. Basically, there are a handful of marring/puncture risks, but you can get passed them if you're gentle. To date, I've always taken a "leave the imperfections be" approach, but I might just clean up some of those jagged edges for putting the tank back in and ask Enzo for forgiveness. That said, it seems like the tank was designed to come out this way. The dimensions of the tank are just too coincidentally similar to the shape it needs to be to get out. So now we know it can be done; which isn't the same as saying it should be done. I'll stay out of that argument, but I imagine there is a valid use-case for going this route. Maybe I should have just done a full engine-out from the outset, but I've gone this far, so I am going to see it through. I'll update as I get further (oil tank, timing cover, etc.). I imagine the gas tank was the hard part, but I guess we'll see. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Borrowing a line when discussing the 308 filler neck hose replacement: "You gotta be a Cirque du Soleil performer to do that job." I was a bit anxious the first time I pulled the engine for the major service, but the amount of 'while-you're-in-there' stuff makes up for it (well... a lot of it). Like those O-rings for the shift input shaft and silent blocks. Items I did not do while the engine was out, and the diff side cover O-rings. Both of which started leaking just about immediately after re-install. Those O-rings were hard and brittle. Exactly what to expect on a 30-40 year old car. Much easier when the engine is out, and possibly the diff carrier etc etc. BTW - Those items mentioned can be done with engine in-situ, but would have been much easier with engine out. You wanted to get into the engine. Maybe this is the time, or kick that can down the road.
You're welcome. I'm glad it helps the community. I was definitely contorting a lot to try and get to the pump from behind the timing cover. Even with QuickJacks, I was constantly raising / lowering to try to access the pump from the top / bottom. By comparison, the gas tank removal was far simpler. There's no fuss (at least from me). The plan is send the car to Paul for an engine rebuild / upgrade where everything will be addressed. This is just a stop-gap till then. I've never personally removed my engine, but it seems pretty straightforward – especially since I've already removed the AC compressor and FMU (EFI conversion). If the gas / oil tank option turns out to be another dead-end, then I'll probably yank the engine. It just seemed like a lot of work if the only thing I planned on addressing was the water pump.
Oh yes! How we love them so... Getting that service done will be the best thing you can do for the car (and you - peace of mind).
Okay, a few days delay due to not having 41mm and 46mm wrenches for the oil tank, as well as dealing with some ghetto fix someone did prior (shock mount bolt under the oil tank was literally tack welded to the chassis...). Anyway, the oil tank comes right out, which then makes timing cover access / removal very easy, then making water pump cover access / removal easy. I'm not really sure there's a practical way to access the inner half of the pump without removing the timing belt – making bearing inspection / replacement impossible. Attached is a picture of the torn seal. If it wasn't already obvious, it is 1000% worth rebuilding the pump every time you do a belt service. The parts are cheap, but hard to access if there's an issue like this. My PO's service records show that during the last timing belt replacement, the pump seals were deemed acceptable and re-installed. Don't do that. Image Unavailable, Please Login I am half tempted to simply bypass the mechanical pump, and let the electric water pump in the front do all the work. No parasitic drag, and easy replacement if there's an issue. I have the new sealing parts though, and I got this far, so I'll probably just rebuild what I can access, and leave it be till the engine comes out for the rebuild. I'm also considering create a new timing belt cover like the one used on the LM cars (attached). This would make pump access much easier, and the lose some of the weight from the thick aluminum covers (the LM versions look like they're fiberglass and missing a bolt for the LH alternator since the LM one is top mounted). Image Unavailable, Please Login Side note, whenever I remove key parts from the car, I try to take the time to 3D scan. We can still get a lot of parts, but that won't be the case forever, so I figure having scans will allow us to create new parts if we need to. Here's an example of the gas tank. I plan on doing the oil tank, timing cover, and water pump cover as well. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
