PPI let down

errr....when I had the PPI done on my car they said they would only specifically evaluate the car mechanically. that everything functioned correctly and would make no comment on anything else such as whether car has been re-painted,...etc...

The only thing they wouldn't comment on is whether belt servicing was done (which pissed me off. Sigh.)

I think I understand now. I think they do this now to protect themselves from issues like this.. Overall, they did a good (if over-priced) job on my PPI. But, I KNEW this endeavor would be fraught with expensive adventures at all levels. Overall, I happy about my PPI, got a lot of useful information about my car and don't dwell too much on these other issues

My PPI cost a huge BUTT-LOAD of money but gave me peace of mind that car would mechanically function as expected and it has. I didn't like that they printed up my expensive PPI report on really cheap paper since I spent so much at the Ferrari dealership for it.

(?would a nice Ferrari logo folder/ring binder and high quality paper with photos be too much to ask for considering the big chunk of change I dumped?)

I, personally, exhaustively inspected car myself, had it put on a lift to inspect undercarriage, test drove it AND brought a car mechanic friend of mine as my wing man to PPI (so he could inspect it too AND keep me grounded). The PPI was only to aid me make up my mind but not do all the thinking for me.

If your car's engine, exhaust system, brakes and AC otherwise mechanically functioning OK then things like fender dent and door laxity is to be expected in cars this old and could be considered ?minor? (?maybe too minor to be mentioned by your inspector since they were obvious to you and him, maybe your inspector focused on mechanical functioning of car?, maybe the expectations btwn parties were not well understood?) From reading the threads, all these issues seemed to have been mentioned in your PPI, maybe there was some typos? - everyone sometimes says left when they mean right, its an honest mistake.

I'm afraid I must side with your inspector over all this. It seems he did his job. Please don't be angry at me. This is just a newbie's opinion. What do I know?

I share your frustration but please try not to dwell on it.

I LOVE my car and think this is all just part of the adventure and, frankly, I expected all this from all the exhaustive research I did prior to my purchase so I would be prepared. I am wiser and have grown as a person from the experience and I think that's part of what this is all about for me - personal growth, new horizons.

The fact of life is due diligence is the buyer's responsibility. If you knew nothing about these cars before your purchase then you should have gone online and educated yourself prior to taking the plunge. I did (and STILL missed some things. Sigh.)

Anyways, none of this keeps the big stupid grin off my face as I drive my girl down the road, hear that engine sing and see all heads turn despite the age and relative "slowness" of my fine Italian Lady.

 

Fortunately my reputation and integrity are known and appreciated throughout this area and beyond.

I cannot comment on any buyer's remorse, maybe the additional leakage test would have been a good thing to pay for, even the best PPI won't assess any problems in that area without the physical test? And with the fouled plugs and other things mentioned in the myriad other threads from OP, the cylinders will be washed down with fuel and can produce high readings. But why am I wasting my time on this? Just as I said, this type of thread has made sure that any definitive and accurate help from the many shop owners who were posting has dried to a dribble at best. Enjoy the "what colour interior is best?" threads.

I'll get me 'at.........

 

Didn't read the entire thread, but has the serial number been posted to protect a future buyer from this turd?

 

Depends on the year of the car. The later cars had Ferrari badges, as I recall.

D

 

Time to turn over . . .
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cplDWmJ2DUE[/ame]

 

Simon said "needs serial number"
I agree..
(sorry, couldn't resist )

 

Unless I'm misunderstanding, the SN is right after the 5th word or the original post.

 

Black. I like black leather.

 

If you gave the car a "once over" then you are assumed to know what you purchased in the Ferrari world. Especially if you had a detailed PPI.

Hopefully you learned a lot for your next one.

That is a pretty strong claim that is hard to support with what the balance of this thread presents.

I have purchase two Ferraris now.

On one I paid for knowledge of a pro. In spite of the fact that he missed one or two items on the car, his report was worth every cent I spent. There is no perfect PPI. There cannot be with something that has the experiences of any vintage Ferrari--and in my opinion that is part of the magic of this game.

Disparaging the person who gave you what appears to be a pretty detailed PPI for $440 will only warn others in future dealing with you to be cautious.

The PPI States: "not including teardown or other diagnostics."

My knowledge of vehicle mechanics does not include any clues on how to spot with certainty internal engine issues with visual only observations. And again the PPI did state there was some "blue oil smoke."

The clue was there for you to investigate further if you had been so motivated. The risk here is on you DK.

The other Ferrari I purchased was through an auction and I just limited my bid to include some expected repairs and that car has also been very pleasureable to own and drive. Any Ferrari can be assumed to require attention for at least some deferred maintenance.

-sc

 

I think it's just as important to understand and explain to the guy doing the PPI what your expectations are.

I bought a Dino seven years ago in very rough condition. I told the mechanic and service manager EXACTLY what I was looking for in a PPI. It was going to be used to negotiate price. In fact, the offer had been accepted. My price, net of any major repairs required to make it run. I wanted as complete a list as possible of the mechanical needs of the car in order to restore it to good running condition. I wanted him to check all the major systems required to make the car road worthy.

I got a complete checklist of the repairs necessary to make the car run well. It took the mechanic several hours to do the PPI, and guess what, he still missed a couple of expensive items.

The estimate at the time? $21,000 +-. The final bill? $26,000. The boss's reaction? He knocked the bill down to the $21K estimate and ate the rest, without my asking.

Is my story unusual? Maybe so. And since that time the world has changed on PPIs. I think too many mechanics have been burned after doing one to even consider doing them now.

The other problem with a PPI is the buyer doesn't want to pay a lot of money for it, just in case the car is a lemon. There's your catch 22. Tell a mechanic to do a PPI for $300 and you get a $300 PPI. 2-3 hours of a mechanic's time is really not enough to do a thorough exam of a 30+ year old car. Or a 5 year old car, for that matter.

Oh, and who did my PPI sever years ago? A Ferrari Dealer in Phily, Algar. They stood behind their PPI with a guy who didn't know them, and who had never owned a Ferrari before. Pretty amazing, eh?

D

 

I don't own this car, and don't have a particular love for the GT4, but, "TURD?"

The car is almost 40 years old. Has a sagging door and a leaky cylinder. If the buyer paid $50K, then maybe "turd" would work into the equation.

Otherwise, I think it's an average condition car that needs work.

I'm hoping the meant you were joking when you used the turd word.

D

 

Yup. Thought it was clear. The only one calling the car a turd is the owner!

 

Brian.

your PPI was a bargain. $440??? Geez, I can't get a fluid service for that on my car.

I read your report. It's thorough, easy to understand and more complete than I'd expect for the price.

If the buyer wanted more than a visual inspection, the price would be higher. To do a compression and leak down test takes time, and would add to the bill. If I was buying a car, I'd want that, but I'd ask for it. Most folks buying older cars would want that. Did you suggest to the OP that you do a leak down and compression test prior to his purchase, or was he specific in what he wanted you to look at?

And finally, does the door really have a 2" sag? That seems like a lot to me, and would have been easily spotted by the OP during his initial inspection. If I was doing a PPI on a car that I knew the OP had already seen, I don't think I would have made any more of a comment on that, and the bumpers, than you did.

I guess now a mechanic will have to produce a checklist and price scale for PPI.

1. Visual inspection and test drive $X dollars for 2 hours.
2. Add: compression test $X more dollars
3. Add: leak down test $xx
4. Add: paint thickness inspection (looking for accident damage) $xxx
5. Add: Check alignment $xxxx
6. Add: Tear car apart and look for hidden landmines. $mega dollars

I mean really, a complete PPI on a old car could include tearing off the heads and looking there too, but what seller is going to permit that?

When we did my PPI, we didn't notice a bent A-arm in the front. It had been painted with undercoating and the damage didn't appear until we stripped it to repaint it.

Stuff happens.

Unreasonable expectations are going to be the downfall of the PPI.

D

 

10-4

If he doesn't want this turd, I'm sure we can find a half dozen turd lovers who will take it off his hands.

D

 

It's amazing someone would think a 40 year old car could be certified to be like a 2010 Camry.

 

I agree. At least Dr. K went to see the car before he purchased it. When I bought mine I paid about what he did and told my mechanic to just look it over as if I were there. He missed a couple things that the OP would be wailing about... but that's OK because.. it's a used car and there will be things that will be missed. Period. What was important for me was that the Big things to me like clutch, tranny shifting and compression were done.

Brian, I'll happily have you do any PPI I need in the area.. and if you miss a slightly dented trim piece on the front of a 40 year old car, or don't word it to my liking.. that's fine. If I want a perfect car with a warranty that it's perfect.. I'll buy a new one. That or maybe buy the next Ferrari at carmax?

 

We have lost several good members of Fchat because of posts like the OP who's only result is to inflame and cast blame where there is none.

The posted PPI clearly states what is found and more importantly the scope of the PPI.

It is very improper and impolite to attempt defamation of another Fchater by inferences on "leak down" when that was not even in the scope of the PPI.

We should all show a little respect for each other.

 

Very well said.

Dale

 

I reassert the OP is FOS and he has now obligingly produced enough rope to hang himself.

 

It is ALWAYS advisable to inspect the car yourself and DRIVE it, regardless of what dealership/individual is selling or brokering the car and how "spotless" and "impeccable" is the reputation.

Exotics are not commodities and no two are exactly alike. A PPI will never take the place of your own senses and experience.

Good luck.

 

I'm watching this thread with some interest as I may be in the PPI (ordering) boat myself. This just serves as a reminder that disappointment is a function of both performance and expectations.

Has any lawyer considered drafting a PPI "expectations" document for mechanics to use that outlines the scope of their work? In the home inspection field this is common. Short of willful negligence (like not even inspecting the car in person) or a serious lapse in procedure (failing to inspect a particular major component), I think most reasonable people understand that a PPI is not a 100% complete, iron-clad list of all the car's faults. I certainly don't. Of course, if the brakes were unsafe and mechanic marked "braked function properly" -- I'd be pissed.

The OP has every right to come on here and complain about his expectations not being met. And in all fairness, it sounds like the scope of the PPI could have been better defined in the beginning. However, I personally take a bit of offense by the OP's passive-aggressive nature. He posts on here how disappointed he is in the PPI, but then mentions how it's all "okay" and that he's going to enjoy the car. Furthermore, in several spots he has made an accusation that the mechanic didn't even visit the car. I don't think there's any evidence of that and making that kind of accusation is damaging and unfounded.

 

I think if you present a Ferrari mechanic with a piece of paper that looks like it came from an attorney and ask him to do a PPI you will get your paper back with a "thanks but no thanks". People trying to sue the mechanic for things not found are the reason no one wants to do them. Inexperienced buyers with unreal expectations and enough money to hire an attorney are a dangerous combination. You just don't see this on the Chevy Chevette forum.

 

Exactly. I don't blame you for being upset, but I transport these cars, and I can tell you, it is worth a plane trip prior to purchase to put your own eyes on it or you risk it being not what you want...

This isn't a law suit waiting to happen as some others have said. Perhaps a refund is in order for lack of services, but determing that on this board without further edification is boardering on comical.

MB

 

I have never used a ppi to buy a ferrari but I know alot about ferraris and when I'm interested in a particular model I learn as much as I can about it. Unfortunately there are many who want someone else to do their work. Every model has its personality. I think each owner should know enough about the model they are buying to ask the right questions and make their own list of ppi requirements. For example there are some very basic issues like What is the compression vs. what are the leakdown numbers. They sound similar but give very different views of engine health. How about a vacum gage test? When were belts changed and were cams timed or was there a lock and swap and is there evidence of this being done? What is the date code on the T-belts and is this an oem ferrari belt?

Then there are very specific model issues like on the 550 what motor mounts are in the car? On the 355 have valve guide been done and is there evidence of that? On the 348 has the gearbox had any non-fluid services or what subassembly is in the car now?

Many of these things can be asked of the owner before a PPi is ordered and then your mechanic can go down the list and confirm what the owner tells you and verify passing of your requirements like when the clutch was replaced for example.

If people want a ppi that means anything they are going to have to do some research themselves and let their mechanics know what is important to them. Mechanics should let customers know they need to be engaged in the process to make sure the mechanic and the customer are on the same page and the mechanics need to charge appropriotly for their services based on the depth of the PPI.