Pre-cat issue in Georgia? (yes I did a search first) | FerrariChat

Pre-cat issue in Georgia? (yes I did a search first)

Discussion in '360/430' started by tomconte, Oct 30, 2018.

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  1. tomconte

    tomconte Formula Junior
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    May 15, 2010
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    Atlanta
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    Tom Conte
    Sorry I did a search and could not find anything specific about Georgia, so I'm posting here.

    Ferrari of Atlanta found that my new-to-me 2003 360 Spider is missing its pre-cats and thus, they say, won't pass Georgia inspection. I'm mortified because the headers alone are ~$5500 and then there's labor and ....

    Does anyone know if there is a work around? The service dept. at FofA (which is a good, honest bunch of guys) say they have tried in the past "everything from oxygen sensor bung extensions to try and trick the system to software changes in the ECU and had absolutely no success so to register the car in GA."

    Thanks in advance.

    Shocked and numb in Georgia,
    Tom
     
    I'm 360 Canuck likes this.
  2. andy308

    andy308 Formula 3

    Jan 16, 2005
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    Sarasota, FL
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    Andy
    Call Ron Reineke at Sports Car Service in Tucker. My car is there now (2002 360) and my precats were starting to break up. I decided to go with FabSpeed Headers/Sport Cats and O2 Extenders to hopefully stop a CEL from occuring. You also might check the ads section here or Ebay for some used stock headers.
     
  3. brookliner7

    brookliner7 Formula Junior

    May 5, 2018
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    San Antonio, TX
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    Hans
    $5,550 for both thats a deal, where are you getting those?

    I just checked Ricambi ad the the Right hand alone is $4,227, and the Left side is unavailable
     
  4. tomconte

    tomconte Formula Junior
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    Used.
     
  5. bpu699

    bpu699 F1 World Champ
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    Dec 9, 2003
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    Pre-cats only work during initial warm up... Once the car is running, no issues.

    How in the world would the DMV know you don't have functioning pre-cats. I'm a car guy. I'm a ferrari guy, I would have no idea what pre-cats look like on a 360, neither would the DMV guy... Unless you exhaust looks obviously aftermarket...
     
    RANDY6005 likes this.
  6. tomconte

    tomconte Formula Junior
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    My understanding is that in GA, the OBD II check at inspection time will reveal the O2 sensor is not "happy."
     
  7. RedNeck

    RedNeck F1 Veteran
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    What is the reasoning they claim for not passing? Is it because of a CEL, monitor readiness or because of the actual emissions?

    I'm so glad my little hick county doesn't require testing.
     
  8. tomconte

    tomconte Formula Junior
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    Monitor readiness.
     
  9. andy308

    andy308 Formula 3

    Jan 16, 2005
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    I should have my car back soon and will report on the status with the parts we are putting on.
     
  10. tmvatlanta

    tmvatlanta Formula Junior

    Mar 26, 2017
    371
    Covington GA
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    Tam V.
    My Spider is a Euro version, which didn’t have pre-cats. I (and others including FoA) can never get all the monitors ready for emission testing. I moved to a non-testing county.


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  11. Drock28

    Drock28 Formula 3

    Jan 13, 2013
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    well they obviously don't know how to trick the ecu..

    simply empty o2 extenders will not work... at minimum must stuff steel wool in the extender..

    but the best option is the Fabspeed Mini-cat spacers.. I run this on my straight piped 355 with not a single CEL..

    buy the mini cat spacers first..install, clear all previous codes and run the car.. CEL should not come up..

    or have them run the extenders again with wool inside and test again
     
    Merlin Auto Group likes this.
  12. tomconte

    tomconte Formula Junior
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    Thanks. Note that it's not CEL. (The car's now throwing a CEL as it is.)
    It's setting the OBD II O2 readiness flag in the ECU that Georgia requires.
     
  13. tomconte

    tomconte Formula Junior
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    Sorry I meant the car is not throwing a CEL
     
  14. vv23

    vv23 Karting

    Jan 8, 2009
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    Edmonton, Alberta
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    Pre cats don't have an O2 sensor to read them. Only the main cats do.

    The car does not monitor pre cats.
     
  15. tomconte

    tomconte Formula Junior
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    Why do I have to keep repeating that this is a real thing? Yes removing the pre-cats prevents the OBDII O2 sensor's readiness flag from setting.

    Tom
     
  16. andy308

    andy308 Formula 3

    Jan 16, 2005
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    Ok picked my car up from Ron today. Had stock headers and cats that were starting to break up. Replaced with Fabspeed headers and Sport Cats. 100 miles of driving and no CEL, we will see about emissions in July. You might want to call Ron and speak to him. PM me if you want to talk.
     
  17. G. Pepper

    G. Pepper Three Time F1 World Champ
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    My 360 had no CEL, but the pre-cats were toast. Replaced the headers AND cats with low mile used units, now I have a CEL that won't go away. Tried two different sets of headers too. Wiped and reset the car several times.

    Fortunately we don't have testing here, so I'm just ignoring the CEL until I can get the Fabspeed setup guys are running with no CEL. This year - this month - it's new brakes and suspension ball joints and bushings.

    Engine and trasmission are restored and perfectly reliable, just the stupid exhaust CEL. Aftermarket headers and cats will be next year's project. I've just had enough for the time being. It's a vexing problem.
     
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  18. I'm 360 Canuck

    I'm 360 Canuck Formula 3

    Nov 21, 2015
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    Lars!
    That’s so weird!


    Tom, I gave you a like for acknowledging the search feature hahaha...my pet peeve. Hope you get this sorted out!
     
  19. tomconte

    tomconte Formula Junior
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    Thanks :) Pet peeve of mine too.

    I'm starting to realize that living in Dekalb County Georgia is great for many things but not so great if you are a Ferrari enthusiast.

    It looks like my only recourse is to go back to stock headers. The Oregon dealer who sold me the car (Ron Tonkin Gran Torismo) is sending Ferrari of Atlanta some used headers to install in the car. But they are balking at paying for the service to install them. F of A tells me it'll cost about $3,300. That makes sense given all that I've searched here on installing headers and what a giant PITA it is. But... Ouch.

    By the way Michael Roth at F of A is top notch!

    Tom
     
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  20. G. Pepper

    G. Pepper Three Time F1 World Champ
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    What headers are giving you the CEL? There are so many aftermarket headers, and it's difficult to find a pattern as to which ones are least likely to throw a CEL, that it is very difficult to chose which ones.

    As I said, I got a pair of low miles OEM headers, and we have not been able to get them to work.
     
  21. tomconte

    tomconte Formula Junior
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    It's not a CEL. In fact, I don't have a CEL. It's that my county requires the OBD-II O2 sensor monitor to set.
    So it's far more restrictive than the usual emissions faults.

    They're Fabspeed headers. The cats are still there. But without the precats, the O2 sensors won't set and I can't get my car registered.
     
  22. G. Pepper

    G. Pepper Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Ah! That's a pretty thorough test. Well, if you replace the headers and end up with a CEL - like I did - don't say you weren't aware that could happen. :)

    I went through a completely different set of frustrating failures with my 456M, but I never got a CEL.

    No Ferrari owner can honestly say, "I don't gamble." If you buy a Ferrari, you're a gambler. :D
     
  23. John_K_348

    John_K_348 F1 Rookie

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    #23 John_K_348, Nov 3, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2018
    Hey, here's another option from the Miata world. See if you can weld another bung, post main cats for the rear sensor. Then swap the front sensor for the rear senor placement and make an extension harness for each harness. Racing Beat does this for long tube header installs on Miatas. They even have a funky trick where you swap sensors purely for the wire length so you use the least amount of new wire in the extension harnesses made my RB. The sensors are the same with just different stock wire lengths. This puts the first sensor further from the head, and gives a better fuel trim reading and sets properly. My car was Cali spec with a pre cat. (30 pound boat anchor) The rear sensor could even be open air for all you care. It just needs to be sweeping less than 1 volt to show the cats are working. Maybe the location in the main cat will set properly for O2 fuel trim? Or use the mini cats there in stock location.
     
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  24. RedNeck

    RedNeck F1 Veteran
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    Michael is a great guy, helped me quite a bit when I was 360 shopping. Unfortunately the great service from FoA comes with a price. That does seem steep for a header install...
     
  25. tazz99

    tazz99 F1 Rookie
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    #25 tazz99, Nov 3, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2018
    Have you tried following the exact Drive Cycle Ferrari published in a service letter? When I had my 360 I had readiness issues. I bought a Blue Driver code reader that plugs into the OBD II port and Bluetooth connects to an app on my IPad. You can monitor all the sensors in real time and watch them change to ready for test status. The letter from Ferrari is available here in the 360 section. Just do a search.

    Edit: Found it for you
    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/attachments/ferrari-fna-20_360-575m_readiness_code_drive_cycle_procedure-pdf.1147622/
     

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